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[Music]

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the smoke radio

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for the masses headline edition july 8

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1947

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the army air forces has announced that a

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flying disc has been found and

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is now in the possession of the army if

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the game is rigged

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change the game game changer

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i occasionally think how quickly our

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differences worldwide

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would vanish if we were facing an alien

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threat

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this is fade to black with your host

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jimmy church

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on the game changer radio network and

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kgra

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the global radio alliance

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i need your help to get to the year

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1985.

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[Music]

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you are listening to fate to black with

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jimmy church on the game changer network

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[Music]

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good evening fade to black

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[Music]

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bespoke radio for

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how are you doing how are you doing how

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are you doing today is wednesday may

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6 2012

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127 days into the new year only 239 days

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left

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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we are live from a bunker somewhere in

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the middle of beautiful downtown burbank

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california and i would like to welcome

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everybody listening all around the world

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all across the united states

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hither and tether to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west

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north and south

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far and near this is fade to black for

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kjcr the game changer network and kg are

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a the planets

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i am your host jimmy church

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what is cracking

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let's do this tonight man i can't wait

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[Music]

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tonight right here on this program

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very special guest

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nick redfearn that's right

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man i got a lot of favorite guests that

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we have on the show nick redfearn

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right up there at the top love nick

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love nick and we are going to be talking

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about his new book

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it was just released we have the links

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for the book

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right there on our website you can go

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and click on it

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and uh it is entitled

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the rendel shim forest ufo conspiracy

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a close encounter exposed as a top

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secret government experiment

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oh man here we go

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love it love it so that's tonight

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tomorrow night on this very program

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it is another fader night because it is

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thursday which means open lines all

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night long with all of you

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really looking forward to that and

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tomorrow night besides tonight with nick

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redfearn

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my favorite night of the week you know

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i'm going to uh you really

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okay poltergeists and and crazy stuff

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on monday this coming monday

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well i get uh all of the publicity

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started

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on this tomorrow on thursday because it

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kicks off on friday

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but on monday i will be

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hosting uh for a couple of hours

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a live uh event

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at the conjuring house it's called the

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house with the current family

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that lives there they've got uh cameras

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uh spread throughout the house

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and i will uh uh be able to sit down

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with everybody that they're on a

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one-week

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lockdown and if you want to go and check

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it out you can

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you can uh just do it the the cameras

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are live

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for seven days and this is going to be

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really

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to meet everybody and uh go through the

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house

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and do that and host the program for two

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and a half hours

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and schedule for two but you know we'll

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be doing

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overtime yeah it's gonna be cool

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so that's on monday on fade to black so

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leading into that speaking of

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poltergeists right and weird stuff in

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haunted houses

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i have and i've noticed this for a while

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now

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i just kind of ignore it but uh it

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happened again today

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i have in the studio uh in in front of

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me with all this gear

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um i have a mouse pad here that's got

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uh three nice on it three mice that

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control three computers

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i have more mice over here you can oh

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you can see ones here and there's

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another one that's over here

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this one's wireless oh i hope i didn't

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is this right in front of these mises

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is that correct nice i have three little

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protectors

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i have my little

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uh incredible hulk usb drive

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right look at hulk he's pretty cool

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that's a usb drive

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right okay it's usb drive and i actually

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use this

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uh every night but anyway so i got my

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little incredible hulk and he sits

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right here and then right next to him

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i got this from stacy with an eye

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uh my little uh lego

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bigfoot sasquatch and he's got a camera

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right my little he's lego right he's a

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little

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sits

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right here and then in the middle

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of these two i've got a little

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ninja warrior hey little ninja warrior

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hi

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yeah i yeah i yeah right so

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these three guys sit right here no big

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deal right

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okay they all stand up they've all got

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big

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feet they don't fall and i come into the

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studio

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every day and one of them is knocked

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over

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the ninja guy is down hulk is knocked

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over

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sasquatches it's like what's going on

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when i'm not here

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and i'm just picturing these guys things

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you know going at it

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but how do they fall over and they do it

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all the time

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ignoring it

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this little guy yeah

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anyway my little protectors and they're

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always falling over

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how does with this stand right this lego

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how does sasquatch fall over but he does

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so

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there you go it's like that movie toy

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story right

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my little protectors okay so that'll be

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on monday

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the house

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okay so we'll get the links up and you

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guys can go and check it out

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it's gonna be a lot of fun because we'll

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be broadcasting

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uh doing a simulcast so what is

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happening here on fade to black will be

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the audio from that feed you won't have

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the video

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if you want to check out all of the

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video or go check out a week's worth of

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poltergeist activity and and ghost

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hunting that they're doing at the house

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which is pretty cool i'll get you all of

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the links so you can do that and it

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starts on friday

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we start uh uh our thing will be on

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monday evening uh this monday okay all

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right where

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am i at follow me on twitter

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at j church radio at j church radio

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start

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right there i like the um uh in in the

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twitter feed

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the raccoon meme from

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earlier that was pretty cool

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[Laughter]

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uh he washes his hands incessantly

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yeah that was pretty good okay follow me

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on twitter at jay church radio any

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questions or comments during the show

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tonight

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use hashtag f2bq that's fade to black

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questions

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you want to hang out with everybody the

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sandbox is hashtag

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f2b on twitter hello to everybody out

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there

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youtube twitter facebook talk stream

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live

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kg ra the planet tune in

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i heart radio wherever you're listening

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welcome

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to the show okay all right let's uh you

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can also email jimmy at

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jimmychurchradio.com i want you to get

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your

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immune system boosted i want you to do

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that i want you to take care of yourself

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i want you to be healthy

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just like i am here i'm just healthy

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rita said to me today before the show

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and i think it was the van halen shirt

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but she turned to me and she goes church

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you look

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look so spelt you're so handsome you

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look you

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you're healthy you look great i think it

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was the van halen shirt but

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thank you for all of that rita but get

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get your immune system in and boost it

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you know

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you just got to uh get a checkup once in

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a while make sure that you

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are all of your fluids are topped off go

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and visit get the t.com

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all right promo code fader will get you

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free shipping on everything over 50

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bucks but go

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over to getthet.com and while you're

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over at jimmychurchradio.com how this

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show happens is sponsors our sponsors

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are the best

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like at thet.com and then uh billy

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carson

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and his new internet tv network

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forbidden knowledge dot tv

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go and click on that banner go and visit

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billy you get a three-day trial

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membership go and check it out right now

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all of you fade or not

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forbidden knowledge dot tv and of course

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river moon coffee i just saw a tweet pop

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up

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about how great our new blend is the

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game

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go to the amazon store for river moon

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coffee

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all of the banners are over at

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jimmychurchradio.com for all of our

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sponsors here

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promo code for amazon is jimmy rmc

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it's all caps jimmy rmc and if you go to

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the website

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of f2b blend

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f the number two b blend f2b

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blend that'll get you 15 off of your

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order on their website

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let's get to the breaking news this

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happened a couple of days ago and when

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the story started to break i was like

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oh man really but it's turning out to

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probably be true

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and that's because venezuelan president

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nicolas maduro said authorities

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in venezuela arrested two united states

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citizens among

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a group of mercenaries on

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monday a day after a beach raid

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an invasion bay of pigs right

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an invasion that purportedly

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was aimed at capturing maduro

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maduro says they foiled it i think they

287
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:13,040
infiltrated the group that's right the

288
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:15,279
two u.s citizens arrested monday

289
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:18,880
were identified as luke denman and aaron

290
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:22,079
barry both former united states special

291
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,600
forces soldiers

292
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:26,160
maduro held up a pair of blue us

293
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,279
passports

294
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:29,760
reading off the names and birth dates on

295
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:32,320
them in a nationwide broadcast on state

296
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:33,440
television

297
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,200
before dawn on sunday officials say the

298
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:39,200
first attack started on a beach near

299
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:42,240
venezuela's port city of lagayara

300
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:45,360
where security forces made the first two

301
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,160
arrests

302
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:48,480
and killed eight others attempting to

303
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:50,399
make a landing

304
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:54,320
by speed boats yeah

305
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,000
that's pretty crazy isn't it and uh yeah

306
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,920
the company that was involved in this

307
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:01,440
that's right

308
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:03,760
a private security firm out of the

309
00:13:09,230 --> 00:13:06,000
united states and the guy that ran that

310
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:09,240
company was doing interviews out of

311
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:12,639
columbia uh into the united states and

312
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,279
laid out

313
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:15,680
everything and how much he was involved

314
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:17,360
and how much he was supposed to make

315
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,800
and and now confessions and video is

316
00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:22,639
starting to surface too from these two

317
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,600
soldiers

318
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,920
and it's uh turning out to be a pretty

319
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,519
crazy situation

320
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,600
mike pompeo said he is going to do

321
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,279
everything he can

322
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,680
to get these two guys released him back

323
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:35,440
into the united states as soon as

324
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:36,399
possible

325
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:40,560
next story you thought that now this is

326
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:43,680
when we talk about the apocalypse right

327
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:45,839
the lifting of the veil the four

328
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:46,959
horsemen

329
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,639
the end of days oh yeah no

330
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:53,120
you know i have my doubts i just think

331
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,760
uh

332
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:55,519
i believe in this country i believe in

333
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:56,880
the planet and everything's gonna be

334
00:14:01,990 --> 00:13:59,440
just fine and so forth

335
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:02,000
but and there's always a but and then

336
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:04,240
there's this story

337
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:13,910
what wendy's

338
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,360
seriously wendy's is out of beef

339
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:20,320
one in five wendy's restaurants across

340
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:22,160
the united states

341
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:25,839
have removed hamburgers

342
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,079
from their menu wendy's expects

343
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:32,160
the beef shortage that is affecting

344
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:33,199
about 1

345
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:36,000
000 of its united states restaurants to

346
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:36,720
continue

347
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:39,760
into the foreseeable future

348
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:43,680
the end of days that's right

349
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,399
analysts scoured the online menus of

350
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:48,079
wendy's 5

351
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:51,360
500 united states restaurants and found

352
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:54,160
that one in five are not selling

353
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:55,680
hamburgers or other

354
00:15:04,150 --> 00:14:58,880
beef items instead

355
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:07,269
and now i know and now all of a sudden

356
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,519
when i when i read this the other day

357
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:11,040
and i thought man i'm gonna hold off on

358
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,000
this this is this

359
00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:14,399
is fear porn right here this is this is

360
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:15,760
promoting the madness

361
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:17,680
i don't know if this is a zone we need

362
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,079
to go into let's refrain

363
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,800
from reporting on the wendy's apocalypse

364
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,079
but

365
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:27,120
i want wendy's now i do

366
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:30,320
man i want a wendy's double

367
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:33,839
cheeseburger with the square with the

368
00:15:36,069 --> 00:15:34,320
squirt

369
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:36,079
cheese and the lettuce of the tomato and

370
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:43,269
right wendy's fries a frosty

371
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,240
those wendy's fries that you dip into

372
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:47,839
the frosty

373
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,160
and the chili the chili with that

374
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:52,320
wendy's yellow butter looking

375
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:55,279
melted hot sauce thing that you pour oh

376
00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:58,000
man with onions on the cheese on the top

377
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,000
i just want wendy's

378
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:05,040
i do all right here we go another sign

379
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:06,959
of the apocalypse has arrived

380
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:09,839
i'm reporting this to you as a public

381
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:12,079
service announcement

382
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:14,399
nineteen thousand four hundred and

383
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:15,360
eighty three

384
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:19,279
teens in georgia have just received

385
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:19,680
their

386
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:22,959
driver's licenses without

387
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:33,509
seriously wisconsin

388
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:37,199
announced this week

389
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:39,600
that it will start doing the same thing

390
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:42,639
for 16 and 17 year olds starting on

391
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:43,600
monday

392
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:45,040
the wisconsin department of

393
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:47,120
transportation estimates that

394
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:49,839
out of the 16 000 road test requests

395
00:16:53,749 --> 00:16:50,560
that have been

396
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:53,759
on hold its new program will allow

397
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:56,880
ten thousand of those requests to be

398
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:59,040
eligible for a driver's license with a

399
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:00,000
waiver

400
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:04,959
and no road test

401
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:08,160
yep that right there forget about what

402
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:09,679
everybody else is saying

403
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:11,439
that right there is another reason to

404
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:13,600
extend lockdowns

405
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,039
keep those kids off the road yeah man

406
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:20,720
think about it think about think about

407
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:22,880
all those kids that that are out there

408
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:25,039
i gotta take my road to i can't parallel

409
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:27,039
park nobody's taught me how to parallel

410
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:28,880
park how am i gonna parallel park

411
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:32,160
that that kid has got a driver's license

412
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:35,520
right now oh

413
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:38,960
man uh isn't that a rite of passage

414
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:42,480
right at your road to becoming an adult

415
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:45,760
one of those things is the stress of the

416
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,640
driving test

417
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:48,640
i got a lot more to talk about tonight

418
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:50,160
um one day

419
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,760
it'll be tomorrow night on fade to black

420
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:53,520
i want one of you fader knots

421
00:18:01,510 --> 00:17:57,280
right here in twitter to remind you

422
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:01,520
uh remind me to tell you what happened

423
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:05,120
with my mom's car on the day

424
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,520
of my driving test that's right

425
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:11,760
it's a conspiracy too my dad doesn't

426
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:12,880
even know

427
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:16,559
he's going to find out tomorrow

428
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:19,919
live on this broadcast all right

429
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:21,919
the star works ufo's an artificial

430
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:23,440
intelligence conference in laughlin

431
00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:26,000
nevada's november 5th through the 8th

432
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:28,679
i'm going to be there go and check out

433
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:30,080
starworksusa.com

434
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:32,799
for tickets and info the disclosure fest

435
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,679
event

436
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,600
right here in los angeles at the

437
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:37,520
historic los angeles park in downtown

438
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:38,799
los angeles

439
00:18:45,070 --> 00:18:42,400
is now scheduled for august 8th

440
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:45,080
the new dates are up you can go to

441
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,480
disclosurefest.org for

442
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,160
all of your information let's get to

443
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:50,880
show cracking happy birthday to today

444
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:55,760
george clooney is 59 years old

445
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:00,000
bob seeger bob sager

446
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:03,120
75 years old can you believe it on this

447
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:03,520
day

448
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:06,640
in history 1937 the

449
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:09,679
airship hindenburg the largest dirigible

450
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:12,640
ever built zeppelin and the pride of

451
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:14,000
nazi germany

452
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:16,320
bursts into flames upon touching upon

453
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:17,600
its mooring mass

454
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:20,240
in lakehurst new jersey killing 36

455
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:21,520
passengers

456
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:23,360
and all crew members there you go no i

457
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:25,600
think some crew members survived

458
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:27,840
yeah hit the ground at least they did in

459
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:30,080
the movie

460
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:33,360
fader fact the theoretical

461
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:36,880
physicist ted taylor okay

462
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,000
now listen to me ignited a cigarette

463
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:44,160
with thermal energy released by a

464
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:45,679
nuclear bomb test

465
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:49,520
on june 1st 1952

466
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:52,640
this is a vetted fader fact

467
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:56,799
taylor used a mirror to focus the light

468
00:20:03,029 --> 00:19:59,039
from the detonation onto the tip

469
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:03,039
of his palm all straight that's right

470
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:06,240
no filters he lit his cigarette

471
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:09,440
during operation tumbler snapper which

472
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,679
was a series of test blasts orchestrated

473
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:13,760
by the united states military at the

474
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:15,039
nevada test

475
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:18,960
site and that is your fader fact tonight

476
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:20,000
nick redfern is

477
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:21,760
here he's going to be talking about his

478
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:23,280
new book it is called the reynoldshim

479
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:25,280
forest ufo conspiracy

480
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:28,000
a close encounter exposed as a top

481
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:28,559
government

482
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:32,080
experiment so stay stay right there

483
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:33,360
nick is going to be joining us at the

484
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:35,120
bottom of the hour let me hit

485
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:51,830
i just needed a moment i needed a moment

486
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,280
i did happy birthday bob bob seeger

487
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:57,120
what's your favorite bob singer song i

488
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:58,799
want to see right now on twitter

489
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:01,520
he's got a zillion hits been doing it

490
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:02,480
forever

491
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:06,880
what's your favorite bob seeger song

492
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,240
yeah there you go well okay

493
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:13,039
i popped it up in twitter earlier today

494
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:14,559
nasa

495
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:16,880
is getting ready to send its next mars

496
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:19,520
rover to the red planet later this year

497
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:21,840
and that mission will also carry

498
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:23,039
ingenuity

499
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:26,240
a brand new helicopter robot that will

500
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:27,840
attempt to make history by

501
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:30,960
becoming the first vehicle to perform

502
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:34,240
a powered atmospheric flight on another

503
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:34,880
planet

504
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:37,600
to big deal nasa's jet propulsion

505
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,000
laboratory created a trailer

506
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,159
to show you approximately what that

507
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,480
flight could look like when it takes

508
00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:46,080
place sometime after the targeted

509
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:47,640
february 18

510
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:51,200
2021 arrival date for the mars

511
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,720
2020 mission okay

512
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:56,720
now we have posted the links for the

513
00:22:02,950 --> 00:21:59,280
ingenuity video up in our twitter feed

514
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,960
for all of you to check out and

515
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:04,880
if you have it pop it up there on

516
00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:06,880
twitter for me so i can do a retweet i

517
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,960
want everybody to see it kevin corber

518
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:10,240
says night moves

519
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:11,919
hollywood nights all of those are pretty

520
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:13,760
good those are pretty good

521
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:17,919
ingenuity may look like a simple dual

522
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:20,000
rotor drone but it's actually a

523
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:21,840
groundbreaking piece of engineering

524
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:24,159
that is to overcome significant

525
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:24,960
technical

526
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,960
challenges in order to complete its

527
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:28,640
mission of performing

528
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:31,679
short altitude hops on mars

529
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:35,039
now that's the only goal here

530
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,080
to fly and the four pound craft doesn't

531
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,240
have any other instruments

532
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:43,440
nothing it's just a set

533
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:45,520
of blades and it's essentially a

534
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,640
demonstrator

535
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:48,880
that will set up the design and

536
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:51,280
development of future aerial exploration

537
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,000
craft

538
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:54,960
to help us study mars now okay i get all

539
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:55,840
of that

540
00:23:02,310 --> 00:22:59,120
right even flying the softball sized

541
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:02,320
main body of ingenuity is an achievement

542
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:04,480
because flying on mars requires much

543
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:06,320
more lift than it does here on earth due

544
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,159
to the nature of the planet's atmosphere

545
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,799
now follow me on this the helicopters

546
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:12,400
test flights are only going to last

547
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:14,480
about 90 seconds each

548
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:16,159
and they're going to climb only to a

549
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:18,240
height of about 16 feet

550
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,320
in the air all right not even a

551
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:22,960
two-story building right which is easy

552
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:24,240
to do here on earth

553
00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:27,600
but 16 feet 16 feet

554
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:31,080
on mars is equivalent to about

555
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:34,080
100 000 feet on

556
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:36,320
earth so imagine flying a drone here on

557
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,919
earth up two hundred thousand feet well

558
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:39,280
think about that right

559
00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:42,799
okay now nasa's mars

560
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,200
2020 mission is currently scheduled to

561
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:47,360
launch between july 17th and august 5th

562
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,320
of this year

563
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:50,480
because that's that optimal window for

564
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:52,000
making a trip to mars

565
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:53,600
because you can only do this every two

566
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:56,159
years and that is due to the orbits of

567
00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:58,880
around the sun of of mars and earth and

568
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,880
it's when we are closest and we've just

569
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:02,720
got to do with that

570
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:06,080
which brings up a few questions first

571
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:09,679
why doesn't their drone have an hd

572
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,799
video camera mounted on on a gimbal

573
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:16,799
shouldn't this have been the first if

574
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:19,039
not the only consideration

575
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:22,640
in its test design this is the only

576
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:24,400
reason to have a drone of any kind in

577
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:25,360
the first place

578
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,159
no via video means no drone

579
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:33,120
it means it's useless would you buy a

580
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:34,080
drone today

581
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:37,679
at any price without a camera

582
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:41,760
you wouldn't now

583
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:44,480
listen nasa you can test this thing all

584
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:46,159
you want to make sure you can

585
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:47,600
build something bigger and better in the

586
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,159
future i get that but not having

587
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:52,640
hd video on board just doesn't make any

588
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:53,360
sense

589
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:56,080
it doesn't i don't know how it got past

590
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:58,159
this phase but it did

591
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:00,640
next and in a strange way this may be

592
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:02,960
more important than the video but

593
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:05,600
they kind of go together which is this

594
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,480
we all know

595
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:09,039
about the slow moving rovers on mars in

596
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:10,720
fact we're tired of them but

597
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,919
nasa has something to places that just

598
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,159
don't seem to matter

599
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:18,480
right they don't go where the water is

600
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,000
they don't go over the ices

601
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:22,880
they don't go where the crazy lava tubes

602
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,679
are and the cave systems and

603
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:27,600
no they don't do any of that they just

604
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:28,720
go to some spot

605
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:31,120
where apparently there is nothing

606
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:32,320
interesting

607
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:35,679
right why not deliver

608
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:43,029
ice not do that

609
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,669
there with that video camera you can

610
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:53,679
start shooting video in your testing

611
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:55,039
phase of things that

612
00:26:02,549 --> 00:25:58,159
are and this is the word i want to use

613
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:02,559
interesting i'm just saying

614
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:06,080
right now and the second part of the

615
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:08,799
second part the one and the two and the

616
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:09,520
a and the b

617
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:12,000
is this with the ability to go somewhere

618
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:14,000
quickly without having to wait for the

619
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:16,880
rover to travel a couple of dozen yards

620
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:19,120
and for that we wait for weeks and a

621
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:20,880
month at a time

622
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:23,120
the ability to do that is a really big

623
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:25,120
deal why not have some

624
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:29,039
simple soil testing stuff a spoon

625
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:32,640
just a little robotic spoon

626
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:36,320
drone technology today is so advanced

627
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:37,360
and stable

628
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:39,120
that's the thing even the most

629
00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:41,279
inexpensive stuff out there is really

630
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:42,720
cool and it does things

631
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:45,360
i've got a cheap drone over here that's

632
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:48,000
got a freaking nerf cannon on it

633
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:51,600
right it's got a nerf cannon on it

634
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:53,360
you can have a little robotic a little

635
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,600
spoon you can go back to the rover

636
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,000
drop the dirt off that you just retrieve

637
00:27:01,190 --> 00:27:00,880
from 45 seconds away of flight at 16

638
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:01,200
feet

639
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:04,559
think about that i'm just saying

640
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,600
man i'm not sure uh

641
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,200
why we aren't seeing something more

642
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:11,279
advanced from a

643
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:15,039
private drone company that was developed

644
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:19,360
for this first flight on the red planet

645
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,200
i'm just saying and it's just like once

646
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:22,880
again and i know it's cool

647
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:24,880
you know but we so we're going to see

648
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:26,960
the rope this is the deal

649
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:29,919
think about this we're going to see

650
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:31,279
pictures

651
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:34,240
of the drone are we gonna see video of

652
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:36,159
the drone flying are we just gonna see

653
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:40,000
pictures we don't got hd video footage

654
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:41,520
from the could you imagine how cool that

655
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:42,080
would be

656
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:45,760
the drone flying around the rover

657
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:48,799
in hd i

658
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:52,240
duh i don't get it man i just

659
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:55,520
don't get nasa

660
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,960
this is fade to black i'm yours jimmy

661
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:58,799
church tonight nick redfern is here

662
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:00,480
we're going to be talking about his new

663
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:03,840
book the rendel shim forest

664
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:07,679
ufo conspiracy a close encounter exposed

665
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,559
as a top

666
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:10,880
government top secret government

667
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:12,080
experiment stay

668
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,720
right there we'll be right back with

669
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:16,000
nick redford i'm your host timmy

670
00:28:19,870 --> 00:28:17,600
church follow me on twitter at j church

671
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:19,880
radio email is jimmy

672
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:22,720
jimmychurchradio.com that's right on the

673
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:25,600
game changer network and kgra the planet

674
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:46,970
welcome back

675
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:49,600
[Music]

676
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:57,350
fade to black i'm your host jimmy church

677
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,600
all right let's do this tonight nick

678
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:01,360
redfern is here tomorrow night

679
00:29:05,269 --> 00:29:03,279
is fader night with open lines all night

680
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:05,279
long so get ready for that

681
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,840
and nick is here tonight to discuss his

682
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:09,840
new book the reynolds force ufo

683
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:10,960
conspiracy

684
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:13,200
the close encounter exposed as a top

685
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,520
secret government experiment

686
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,679
nick works full-time as an author he's a

687
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,279
lecturer journalist

688
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,200
he writes about a wide range of unsolved

689
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:23,520
mysteries including bigfoot ufos loch

690
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:24,080
ness

691
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,360
aliens government conspiracies his books

692
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:29,679
include for nobody's eyes only

693
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:31,760
monster files the world's weirdest

694
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:34,880
places the pyramids and the pentagon

695
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:38,000
keep out the real men in black the nasa

696
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:39,200
conspiracies

697
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:42,159
he's a memoirs of a monster hunter he

698
00:29:46,149 --> 00:29:43,600
writes for ufo magazine

699
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:46,159
and mysterious universe where i go and

700
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,240
plagiarize my best material i want to

701
00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:50,320
thank nick in advance for that

702
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:52,559
nick has appeared on numerous television

703
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:53,679
shows including

704
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,760
fox news the history channels ancient

705
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:57,520
aliens monster quest

706
00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:00,559
and ufo hunters vh ones

707
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:03,200
legend hunters national geographic

708
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:05,360
channels the truth about ufos and

709
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:08,399
uh paranatural and bbc's out of this

710
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:08,799
world

711
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:12,080
msnbc's countdown and sci-fi channels

712
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:12,559
proof

713
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:14,000
positive and i would like to welcome

714
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:15,760
back to fade to black our friend

715
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:18,320
nick redfern nick good evening man how

716
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:19,760
are you tonight

717
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,840
hey jimmy i'm doing good thanks how's it

718
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,120
going well

719
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:24,720
things are good over here as good as to

720
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:26,799
be expected and we don't even need to go

721
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,640
there you and i both know

722
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:30,399
we're just gonna ride this thing out

723
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:32,240
whatever it is so

724
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,080
oh man so aside from that nick um i

725
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:39,120
am going to go right here i consider

726
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,159
you a pretty low-key guy

727
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:45,360
your dress code suggests otherwise

728
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:48,480
but you are a pretty low-key guy

729
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:51,279
right you you you're very prolific you

730
00:30:54,870 --> 00:30:52,880
write a lot you get it out there

731
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,880
but you're not you're not out there

732
00:30:59,509 --> 00:30:56,960
tipping over cars and throwing

733
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:59,519
uh trash cans through windows that's not

734
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:00,480
what you do

735
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:03,679
must

736
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:06,880
be enjoying as somewhat

737
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:10,399
kicking back and enjoying the

738
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:12,399
the the controversy that is starting to

739
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:13,519
surround this book

740
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:16,559
what what is that like for you

741
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:19,039
well you know i mean i think most of the

742
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,159
books that i write

743
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,559
to a degree you know are controversial

744
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,480
but as you said in the introduction

745
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:27,039
most of what i do is sort of surrounded

746
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:27,600
by

747
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:30,840
ufos bigfoot loch ness monster

748
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:32,159
chupacabra

749
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:35,200
men in black shadow people black-eyed

750
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:36,320
children

751
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,480
you know sort of paranormal side of

752
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:41,039
things i'm not really someone who

753
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:43,679
you know delves deep into the world of

754
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:45,919
of conspiracies that kind of thing you

755
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:48,000
know i'm sort of more into

756
00:31:54,389 --> 00:31:51,200
the paranormal ufos cryptozoology

757
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:54,399
the fun stuff the fun stuff

758
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:57,840
yeah exactly and um you know i think

759
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:01,120
like i said two varying degrees you know

760
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:01,600
the

761
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,480
it provokes controversy but um you know

762
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:06,559
i'm fine with that i mean

763
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:09,919
the way i look at it is that um

764
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:12,320
when we're investigating these things

765
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:13,600
and if things

766
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:16,000
turn up that turn happen to be highly

767
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:17,840
controversial well let's

768
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:20,880
let's debate it you know um let's look

769
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:21,519
into it

770
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:24,880
and um what i try and do is to you know

771
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:27,679
find the evidence the facts the data

772
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,559
rather than focus on the i want to

773
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:32,399
believe aspect you know because that

774
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:33,200
doesn't help

775
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:35,919
anybody you know i i feel that it's

776
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:37,039
important

777
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,399
to present what i've found

778
00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:43,039
regardless of whether people you know

779
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:43,919
feel that

780
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,640
i've got the right theory for rendlesham

781
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,159
or bigfoot or whatever

782
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,799
i think it's important that we get the

783
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,159
data out there

784
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:54,399
rather than just tell people what they

785
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,919
want to hear you know there's two

786
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:57,679
there's far too much of that

787
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:00,720
within these fields already you know a

788
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:02,480
situation where people

789
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,200
sort of carefully and calculatedly

790
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:07,200
decide to write this book or that book

791
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:08,640
because they think

792
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:11,039
you know it's going to sell more copies

793
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:12,399
well my view

794
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:16,000
is just just go where the evidence is

795
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:17,360
and if people like it

796
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,320
people don't like it you know that

797
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:22,080
doesn't have an impact on

798
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:24,799
how i go about my research or writing i

799
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:26,080
present it

800
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:28,159
for people to see and if they like it

801
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:30,080
that's great if they don't

802
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:33,039
um well that's how it goes you know well

803
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:33,360
see

804
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:35,760
you're a professional author a

805
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:36,720
professional

806
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,240
journalist this is your gig some books

807
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,000
are going to take off and run

808
00:33:45,269 --> 00:33:44,640
some aren't some articles you can write

809
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:45,279
the most

810
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:48,080
brilliant piece in the history of nick

811
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:49,200
redfern

812
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,320
on on your blog and and kick back and go

813
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:54,799
that felt pretty good and nobody reads

814
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:55,440
it

815
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:57,840
right some things and there's other

816
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:58,720
things that you

817
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:00,320
have probably written and thought well

818
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:03,120
okay whatever and suddenly that takes

819
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:03,679
off

820
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:06,000
but you do it enough to know that if

821
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:07,120
this is the way

822
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:09,440
things are you're not going to concern

823
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:10,800
yourself over

824
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:13,200
uh the selling or the numbers of things

825
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:15,200
if it happens great if it doesn't

826
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:16,560
well you're going to be doing something

827
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:18,800
else next month anyway you've got

828
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:20,960
another project that you're currently

829
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:23,520
working on it's just what a professional

830
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:26,879
journalist does right yeah i mean

831
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:29,280
to give you an example the my sort of

832
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:30,639
best-selling book

833
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:32,800
um is actually one that i did on bigfoot

834
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,639
called the bigfoot book

835
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:36,879
that is my biggest selling ones that

836
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,079
kind of tells

837
00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:40,720
you know what people like in terms of

838
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:42,159
what i write about

839
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:44,399
but but you you write when you said

840
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:45,200
about

841
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:47,280
you know what books are sort of popular

842
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:48,480
and which ones aren't

843
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:50,079
one of the things i can tell you for

844
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:52,000
sure is that

845
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:56,320
um the books my books that sell the most

846
00:35:03,030 --> 00:34:59,839
are the ones that are sort of pro ufo

847
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:03,040
pro alien rather ones

848
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:06,880
like that that i've written about um

849
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:09,760
we we may sort of destroy a sacred cow

850
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:10,400
kind of

851
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:14,400
uh you know story in ufology i've found

852
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:17,359
those books don't sell well and it's and

853
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,680
it

854
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:19,680
basically comes down to one thing the

855
00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:21,280
books that i

856
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:24,720
write that are that sell fairly well

857
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:28,000
um are the ones that

858
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:31,040
have a like a positive impact on ufology

859
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:33,280
if i was to write a book saying you know

860
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:35,119
this famous case

861
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,040
isn't um you know as it seems to be

862
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,280
those books don't sell now it might seem

863
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:43,440
strange saying that now because you know

864
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,240
with the new book

865
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:46,800
just come out the rendelsham forest book

866
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,680
um

867
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:49,920
there's no doubt that the vast majority

868
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:51,200
of the people

869
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:53,920
listening to this and possibly buying

870
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:55,119
the book

871
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:59,040
i i'm pretty confident that they won't

872
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,440
buy the book now that might seem strange

873
00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:03,359
that an author would say that

874
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:07,040
but you know if nothing else i'm 100

875
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:10,480
truthful you know and and open wide

876
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:14,400
and i can tell you that writing books on

877
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:17,520
things that you know destroy

878
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:20,000
this case or that case they don't sell

879
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,359
but that doesn't stop you know but that

880
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:22,720
won't stop me from

881
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:24,240
like with the rendelsham one you know

882
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:26,560
rental shim is one of

883
00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:28,880
it's sort of like the uk's roswell in

884
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:31,359
terms of visibility and fame

885
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:35,359
you know and um and the new book

886
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:38,240
looks at the angle of rendlesham being

887
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:40,000
not a ufo event

888
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:43,119
but being a secret experiment using

889
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:44,160
holograms

890
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,280
and to try and determine how

891
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,440
um people could be fooled on the

892
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:51,520
battlefield that kind of thing

893
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:54,480
um now a lot of people might sort of say

894
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:55,359
how dare nick

895
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,480
do that you know and um and a lot of

896
00:37:03,190 --> 00:36:59,920
people i'm sure will

897
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:03,200
will not buy the book because you know

898
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:04,160
i'm not saying what

899
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,320
they want to hear but i mean what am i

900
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:08,400
supposed to do just lie

901
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:11,040
and just tell stories that are that

902
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:12,480
people want to hear you know that's not

903
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:13,520
my

904
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:16,320
approach and um and if people like the

905
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:16,720
book

906
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:20,320
well but like

907
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:22,400
like i said earlier that's how it goes

908
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:23,599
and um

909
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:26,400
but i'm not going to change my approach

910
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:26,880
you know

911
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:33,119
more books or whatever i mean that's you

912
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:34,079
i mean if you do that you're

913
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:34,960
compromising

914
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:36,960
you are your own ethics to start with

915
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:38,720
you know 100

916
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:41,839
if you start writing books because

917
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:43,599
you're concerned about numbers

918
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:46,160
and you want to change who you are it's

919
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,960
like

920
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:48,480
you know you and i always go to the

921
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,880
music analogy analogy right

922
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,800
but if you're a band that's writing

923
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:54,320
songs for an album

924
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:57,440
because you want to sell

925
00:38:01,589 --> 00:38:00,560
albums then you're not an artist or a

926
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:01,599
painter

927
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:04,320
or or anything else that's that's not

928
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:04,720
how

929
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:07,119
it works but i do want to i actually

930
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:08,560
want about oh go ahead

931
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:11,119
you have something to say on the music

932
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:11,839
angle

933
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,160
as you know my uh my favorite band is

934
00:38:17,829 --> 00:38:16,079
the ramones you know and um

935
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:17,839
but the ramones made some of the most

936
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:19,440
classic music

937
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:22,240
but they were never big sellers you know

938
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,240
they remained like a cult

939
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:26,480
type band you know throughout their

940
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:27,920
entire career

941
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:30,320
um but they didn't sort of change their

942
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:31,599
ways you know

943
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,839
they sort of it was still bowl haircuts

944
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:36,000
and leather jackets from the start to

945
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:36,480
the end

946
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:40,720
you know and um and that's how i kind of

947
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,760
make that analogy you know is that um if

948
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:45,599
you're gonna write about

949
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:48,480
um controversial things like ufos

950
00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:49,839
bigfoot

951
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:53,920
aliens etc etc um you should just go

952
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:57,119
where your heart takes you in terms of

953
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,720
what you're looking for looking for

954
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:01,200
answers and don't try and

955
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:04,320
you know make the answers fit in just go

956
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:04,960
where it

957
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:08,320
takes you and um and if it if it's sort

958
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:09,440
of um

959
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,160
you know when you sort of look into your

960
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:14,240
theories if it vindicates your theories

961
00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:15,520
well that's great

962
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:18,160
if however when you start to look into

963
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,359
it you think

964
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:21,119
you know holy hell this is starting to

965
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:23,440
go down a path i didn't think

966
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:26,000
it was going to go down that shouldn't

967
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,040
stop you from going into that angle

968
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:31,440
is that one thing you can do is hide the

969
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,720
truth right

970
00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:34,880
okay yeah nick is that what happened to

971
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:36,079
you here

972
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:38,560
did you start to write just another

973
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:39,920
rendlesham book i

974
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:42,800
i it scares me to say those words but as

975
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:44,720
you were doing the research

976
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,800
is that when you started to change

977
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:48,320
directions

978
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:50,480
well this one was slightly different

979
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:52,320
because um

980
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,160
over the years i have sort of got

981
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:56,160
snippets of information

982
00:40:02,710 --> 00:39:59,200
um probably going back to the late 90s

983
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:02,720
um in relation to the idea that reynolds

984
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:03,760
forest

985
00:40:10,349 --> 00:40:07,040
was not the landing of a ufo but it was

986
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:10,359
um a secret experiment using

987
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,280
hallucinogens and holograms

988
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:15,359
and the purpose being you know you you

989
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:17,119
have the guys in the woods

990
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:20,720
and you watch their reaction as to

991
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,359
how they respond so in other words you

992
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,000
can gauge from experiments like this

993
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:28,640
how troops on the battlefield might

994
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:29,920
react

995
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:32,480
when faced with like a sophisticated

996
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:33,440
holographic

997
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:36,480
image it may cause havoc on the

998
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,520
uh on the battlefield not realizing that

999
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:42,079
what's in front of them isn't real so

1000
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:44,079
that's kind of the theme of it and over

1001
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:46,160
the years and particularly within

1002
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:49,440
um this sort of rendersham forest

1003
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:52,480
um people if you like in

1004
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:55,760
in the uk the researchers in the uk um

1005
00:41:02,710 --> 00:40:59,520
these stories of um sort of holograms

1006
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:02,720
and mind-altering technologies and

1007
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:06,000
creating sort of roses um

1008
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,480
as a means to you know determine how the

1009
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:10,560
human mind can be altered and

1010
00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:13,839
and changed um and so over the years i

1011
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,760
collected a lot of these stories

1012
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:18,240
and sort of followed you know the

1013
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:21,040
snippets of data tracked a few people

1014
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:21,920
down

1015
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:24,560
and it was sort of it was last year when

1016
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:25,200
i felt

1017
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,800
i'd got enough material um to put

1018
00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:30,240
something together

1019
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:33,440
that would essentially present the

1020
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:37,200
alternative scene to the conventional

1021
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:37,680
scene

1022
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:40,960
came down

1023
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:43,520
the unconventional but equally

1024
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:44,640
controversial

1025
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:48,160
aspect is the secret experiment and um

1026
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,440
i have to say that having done a lot of

1027
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:53,200
research into this

1028
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:56,480
um i do feel that rendlesham was

1029
00:42:03,430 --> 00:41:59,760
a series of highly sophisticated

1030
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:03,440
experiments and and i should stress you

1031
00:42:07,109 --> 00:42:03,920
know

1032
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:07,119
i don't take any sort of pleasure

1033
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,400
in um you know knocking down one of the

1034
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:12,240
pillars of ufology

1035
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:15,440
um i do so because that's where the

1036
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:18,560
the data has taken me it really is

1037
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:22,079
that simple and i think um

1038
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:23,839
you know i would hope that people would

1039
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:25,119
look at the book

1040
00:42:31,829 --> 00:42:28,640
um through you know um

1041
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:31,839
a regular situation you know go into it

1042
00:42:35,190 --> 00:42:32,240
just

1043
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:35,200
read it don't have some preconceived uh

1044
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:36,480
conclusions or

1045
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:39,040
ideas and so on just see for what it is

1046
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:40,960
and if you agree with me that's great if

1047
00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:42,560
you don't agree with me

1048
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:45,280
you know we can debate as to why you

1049
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:47,599
don't and i and i think that's the way

1050
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,640
that's the responsible way to handle you

1051
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:52,640
know controversial things

1052
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:55,599
like this but let's not just you know

1053
00:43:02,069 --> 00:42:58,079
uphold a story because it sounds cool

1054
00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:02,079
you know well i um i

1055
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:04,160
okay i'm just gonna put it straight out

1056
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:05,599
there i have

1057
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:09,040
always said that the one case

1058
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:12,000
out of so many that are out there at the

1059
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:13,520
top of the list

1060
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:16,560
the most important is randall shim

1061
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:19,440
and the reason why is the witnesses are

1062
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:20,800
still here with us

1063
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:23,359
this isn't roswell this isn't something

1064
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:24,800
else that is now

1065
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:28,079
part of urban legend and has become myth

1066
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:30,000
you know it's it's something else out

1067
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:31,599
there because we don't have anybody

1068
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,319
firsthand

1069
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:34,480
that's not the case with rendelsham this

1070
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:35,760
is a modern era

1071
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:38,000
situation where we have witnesses that

1072
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:39,359
we can still go

1073
00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:41,760
and talk to both in the government and

1074
00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:43,359
out and so forth

1075
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:45,680
there's that aspect of it and i think

1076
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:46,400
and i've had

1077
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:48,400
everybody from rendell shim on this

1078
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:50,480
program one time or another

1079
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:54,000
um but the the flip side of

1080
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:57,280
it is that i think all of them except

1081
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:00,720
nick that they honestly

1082
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:02,960
don't know almost i should say honestly

1083
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:03,760
don't know

1084
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,319
what happened in the forest that night i

1085
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:08,480
and i i truly believe that and all of

1086
00:44:12,630 --> 00:44:10,160
their experiences

1087
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:12,640
are turning out so many years later to

1088
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:13,760
be different and

1089
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:17,200
singular you went and i've read all the

1090
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:19,040
books i've interviewed everybody

1091
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:22,079
on rendlesham and you chose

1092
00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:24,880
to make uh to write i don't know maybe

1093
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:26,319
you can tell me the number it's probably

1094
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:26,880
the first

1095
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:30,160
20 or 40 pages of the book

1096
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:33,440
um a refresher course on what rental

1097
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:34,480
shim was

1098
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:37,920
and when i read that i actually

1099
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:39,920
learned a few things that i didn't know

1100
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:42,640
previously and i was also reminded of a

1101
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:43,599
few things

1102
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:46,000
that kind of get lost in the mix about

1103
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:47,599
rental shim over the years

1104
00:44:50,790 --> 00:44:49,359
when you decided to do that at the

1105
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:50,800
beginning of the book which you didn't

1106
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,000
have to do

1107
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:54,480
did you find yourself remembering things

1108
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:56,000
about rental shim

1109
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:58,480
or learning new things on a case that's

1110
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:01,440
been out there for 40 years

1111
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:04,400
well um i mean one of the things that i

1112
00:45:07,589 --> 00:45:04,960
think's

1113
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:07,599
important to make note of when you're

1114
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:09,599
talking about rendlesham forest

1115
00:45:13,109 --> 00:45:12,480
the case or actually and the location as

1116
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:13,119
well

1117
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:15,760
you know people i think who through no

1118
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:16,720
fault of their own you know if you

1119
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:18,160
haven't been to the uk and you haven't

1120
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:19,839
seen reynolds forest you know you might

1121
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:20,480
have

1122
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:23,920
an image of just let's say you know just

1123
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:24,880
this

1124
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:27,839
creepy old forest you know in little old

1125
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:29,520
england that kind of thing

1126
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:32,400
um but the reality is and this is where

1127
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:33,920
it gets important

1128
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,560
is that rendlesham forest going back to

1129
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:38,240
the 1930s

1130
00:45:42,910 --> 00:45:41,040
has been an absolute hotbed for top

1131
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:42,920
secret military

1132
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:45,440
experimentation now that's not room or

1133
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:46,000
anything like

1134
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,520
that for example in the early 1930s

1135
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:52,319
um the british government set up a

1136
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:53,920
committee called the tizzard

1137
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:56,400
committee and it was one of the first

1138
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:58,720
commit secret top secret committees set

1139
00:46:02,550 --> 00:45:59,359
up

1140
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:02,560
to look into the early technologies

1141
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:04,480
surrounding radar

1142
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:07,839
and in the second world war

1143
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:10,960
there were rumors of german troops

1144
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:14,480
um invading uh just off the east coast

1145
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,680
of england

1146
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:17,440
near a little village called shingle

1147
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:19,760
street and the rumors that some sort of

1148
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:21,520
weird technology was used to

1149
00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:24,319
quite literally set all these german uh

1150
00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:26,319
soldiers on fire as they came on the

1151
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:28,079
beach

1152
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:31,680
there's also um another radar program in

1153
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:34,240
the 50s and 60s top secret called cobra

1154
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:34,800
mist

1155
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:37,520
which was like um a major part of the

1156
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:38,560
defensive

1157
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:41,680
um situation in the uk

1158
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,880
and also um people working for marconi

1159
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:46,480
were working there as well

1160
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,000
now to put this in perspective for you

1161
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:53,200
the tizzard committee radar uh program

1162
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:55,760
the cobra mist shingle street and this

1163
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:57,440
sort of mysterious deaths of all these

1164
00:47:01,589 --> 00:46:58,000
german

1165
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:01,599
troops all of this all occurred

1166
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:04,480
less than 10 miles outside of rendelsham

1167
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:05,200
forest

1168
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:07,440
all of those top secret programs that i

1169
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:08,640
just mentioned

1170
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:11,200
so in other words when you look at it

1171
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:12,960
from that perspective

1172
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:16,640
rendering forest is not just any

1173
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:19,040
old uh forest you know in the middle of

1174
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:20,079
nowhere

1175
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:23,920
it sits quite literally around sort of a

1176
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:26,000
circular situation

1177
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:29,359
where just about everywhere um

1178
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:32,079
has sort of been tied in with classified

1179
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:33,920
military programs and my

1180
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,800
argument is given that we've had

1181
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:38,160
classified radar

1182
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:40,960
projects from the 30s to the 50s we had

1183
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:41,599
the

1184
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:49,200
all working in and out of that area my

1185
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:49,920
view is

1186
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:52,000
well if all those pro top secret

1187
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,960
programs

1188
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,440
were initiated in rendelsham forest from

1189
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:57,599
the 30s to the 70s

1190
00:48:00,950 --> 00:48:00,160
well why should it not be the case that

1191
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:00,960
this is just

1192
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,920
yet another top secret experiment

1193
00:48:08,069 --> 00:48:05,280
undertaken

1194
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:08,079
um in and around randalsham forest and

1195
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:08,800
as i said

1196
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:11,119
you know the stark reality is all of

1197
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,839
those

1198
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:14,240
official secret programs were quite

1199
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,280
literally

1200
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:17,280
no more than sort of seven or eight

1201
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:18,800
miles from the forest

1202
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:20,960
a lot of people don't realize that that

1203
00:48:26,630 --> 00:48:23,599
there's this sort of long-standing

1204
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:26,640
history of cover-ups and advanced

1205
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:27,599
technologies

1206
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:30,720
etc being used there and i think that

1207
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:33,760
that to get the story going that is one

1208
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:35,920
of the most important parts of the story

1209
00:48:39,670 --> 00:48:36,640
i think

1210
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:39,680
now did you go back and

1211
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:42,160
uh for this book did you go back and

1212
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,119
listen to the hall

1213
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:46,160
tape yes yeah and

1214
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:49,599
what what do you i listen to the hall

1215
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:50,160
tape

1216
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:53,200
not recently i listened to it when there

1217
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:54,480
was no such thing as

1218
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,640
audio on the internet right i'm talking

1219
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:58,400
about 1995

1220
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:01,760
and somehow these audio files showed up

1221
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:03,760
on the net and i figured out a way to

1222
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:04,720
play them back

1223
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:06,559
today we take that stuff for granted i

1224
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:08,880
realized but but back then it was

1225
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:11,760
a rarefied moment to have that happen

1226
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:13,359
and to have this kind of

1227
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:16,559
evidence out there uh when it came to

1228
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:17,440
the ufo

1229
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:18,880
situation i'm talking about you know

1230
00:49:22,950 --> 00:49:20,640
military a colonel

1231
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:22,960
a military base it was pretty

1232
00:49:26,790 --> 00:49:24,720
fascinating stuff

1233
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,800
did but when you go back and listen to

1234
00:49:30,230 --> 00:49:28,800
that tape today knowing the historical

1235
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:30,240
perspective that is behind

1236
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:33,599
it what went through your mind

1237
00:49:37,109 --> 00:49:36,000
oh well for me i think the whole tape is

1238
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:37,119
one of the most

1239
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:40,480
important parts of the story because i

1240
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:42,240
mean if you think about it

1241
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:45,839
it's almost unique in fact it may be 100

1242
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:48,720
unique that you know i can't really

1243
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:50,079
think of another

1244
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:53,680
sort of profound ufo case where it was

1245
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:54,640
actually

1246
00:50:00,870 --> 00:49:58,319
you know sort of collected so to speak

1247
00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:00,880
uh on audio you know we've actually got

1248
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:02,000
the

1249
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:06,800
can listen it now

1250
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:08,720
40 years later that's that's almost

1251
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:10,240
unique you know

1252
00:50:14,230 --> 00:50:12,319
as i said i can't think of another case

1253
00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:14,240
that falls into that sort of

1254
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:16,319
important category and one of the

1255
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:18,079
important things i need to

1256
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:20,000
stress when it comes to you know the

1257
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:21,520
guys in the woods

1258
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:25,280
um and the tape and the audio and

1259
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:26,880
everything they're saying

1260
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:28,880
you know i i point out in the book you

1261
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:31,280
know i'm not saying that any of the guys

1262
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:34,079
were sort of you know fabricating or

1263
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:35,520
anything like that

1264
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:38,880
um or you know was saying it was a ufo

1265
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,480
when they knew it wasn't

1266
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:42,960
my view and as i point this out in the

1267
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:43,520
book

1268
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:46,000
is that they were they were essentially

1269
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:47,119
guinea pigs

1270
00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:50,240
they did not know what was going on they

1271
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:50,960
were being

1272
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,040
sort of used um in this highly advanced

1273
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:58,559
holographic type experiment and

1274
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,880
none of them were sort of aware in the

1275
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:02,400
slightest of what

1276
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:03,920
the situation that they were being

1277
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,640
plunged into in other words as i said

1278
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,480
they were the guinea pigs they were not

1279
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:10,800
part of the program

1280
00:51:15,190 --> 00:51:13,280
they weren't knowingly um going into

1281
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:15,200
this situation in other words so

1282
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:17,599
um that's important to note they they

1283
00:51:22,230 --> 00:51:18,880
weren't part

1284
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:22,240
of the operation they were the victims

1285
00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:22,880
of the

1286
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:26,240
operation now what about uh we're gonna

1287
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:27,280
i'm gonna

1288
00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:28,800
we're gonna go into this much much

1289
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:30,640
deeper after the break

1290
00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:34,079
but we we bring up uh colonel halt the

1291
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:37,040
deputy base commander all the time but

1292
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:37,760
if this

1293
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:42,000
was a government experiment

1294
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:45,599
wouldn't the base commander be aware

1295
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,760
well the important thing to note is that

1296
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:48,960
the it's kind of

1297
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:52,400
a weird situation because what you have

1298
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:56,640
excuse me um colonel holt lieutenant

1299
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:57,440
cole

1300
00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:00,720
colonel holt um was the deputy base

1301
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:01,920
commander

1302
00:52:05,109 --> 00:52:04,079
at bentwaters royal air force bent

1303
00:52:08,309 --> 00:52:05,119
waters

1304
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:08,319
but where the um the ufo

1305
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:10,640
activity occurred was actually just

1306
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:11,680
outside of

1307
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:14,319
royal air force woodbridge so for people

1308
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:16,640
don't understand or possibly aren't sort

1309
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:18,000
of appreciate the story

1310
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:20,000
it basically goes like this in the

1311
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:21,359
second world war

1312
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:23,920
you know when there was a possibility of

1313
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:25,119
hitler winning

1314
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:29,280
um a number of uk bases were handed over

1315
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:29,920
to u.s

1316
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,480
military personnel who could essentially

1317
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:34,640
become you know sort of uh

1318
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:37,680
work from the uk and a lot of you know

1319
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:38,720
there are a number of

1320
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,079
um uk military bases that exist today

1321
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:44,319
that still have you know large uh

1322
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:47,440
contingents of u.s personnel to help

1323
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:49,440
you know in the event that uh we ever go

1324
00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:50,800
to war again

1325
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:53,839
and so in the 1940s during the war you

1326
00:52:57,030 --> 00:52:55,839
had royal air force bent waters and

1327
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:57,040
woodbridge

1328
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:00,720
and with um large contingents

1329
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:03,359
of uh us personnel and that continued

1330
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:06,319
through the 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s

1331
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:08,079
and now they're not you know that

1332
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:09,839
they're closed down now as far at least

1333
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:10,880
as far as

1334
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:14,000
you know as uh as they're seen but so

1335
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:15,520
the important thing is

1336
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:18,559
we had um colonel holt

1337
00:53:25,510 --> 00:53:22,160
based at royal air force bent waters but

1338
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:25,520
the event occurred at a royal air force

1339
00:53:29,750 --> 00:53:26,880
wood bridge

1340
00:53:31,990 --> 00:53:29,760
well actually outside of the the bases

1341
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:32,000
themselves and inside rendering flores

1342
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:33,680
because rendelsham forest

1343
00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:36,480
is um public land anybody can walk

1344
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:37,040
through

1345
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:38,559
reynolds and forest you know it's not

1346
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:41,440
closed off you know an open just um

1347
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,720
used by the military the wood bridge and

1348
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:46,720
bent waters you know obviously when they

1349
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:47,119
were in

1350
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:50,000
in um in use you know they've got there

1351
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:51,680
was fences and um

1352
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:54,880
security guards etc etc so

1353
00:54:02,549 --> 00:53:59,119
in other words um we're in a situation

1354
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:02,559
where you've got u.s personnel on

1355
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:06,000
originally on uk bases but the events

1356
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:08,160
actually having occurred outside of the

1357
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:09,119
base

1358
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:10,559
so you know there's a lot of

1359
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,280
complexities in relation to

1360
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:15,599
who knew what was going on and who may

1361
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,119
have known you know

1362
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:19,599
let's take our break right here nick and

1363
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:21,680
uh we'll continue when we come back

1364
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:23,119
after this short break

1365
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:24,960
this is fade to black i am your host

1366
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:26,720
jimmy church tonight nick redford is

1367
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:27,280
here

1368
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:29,119
we're discussing his new book it was

1369
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:30,319
just released

1370
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,800
the randall shim force ufo conspiracy a

1371
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:34,640
close encounter exposed

1372
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:37,520
as a top secret government experiment

1373
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:39,119
the links for the book

1374
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,680
you need to go and get yourself one or

1375
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:43,440
over at jimmychurchradio.com you can

1376
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:44,880
just click and go straight there we'll

1377
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,799
be right back after this short break

1378
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:49,359
this is fade to black on the game

1379
00:55:11,829 --> 00:54:52,800
changer network stay with us

1380
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:11,839
[Music]

1381
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:14,240
all right welcome back fade to black i'm

1382
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:16,079
yours to mature tonight nick redfern is

1383
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:16,960
here

1384
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:20,160
we are discussing his new book the renal

1385
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,079
shem forest ufo conspiracy

1386
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:25,119
a close encounter exposed as a top

1387
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:28,240
secret government experiment now

1388
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:31,119
nick let's let's take this next segment

1389
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:31,920
to discuss

1390
00:55:36,870 --> 00:55:34,799
what may be difficult for a lot of us

1391
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:36,880
out there including myself

1392
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:41,359
which is we all have come to conclusions

1393
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:45,119
about rendleshim but but

1394
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:49,040
no matter what and especially in the ufo

1395
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,520
circles

1396
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:51,200
and when i say no matter what i'm

1397
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:52,880
talking about physics

1398
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:55,440
religion politics whatever you want to

1399
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,160
say

1400
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:58,720
we need to listen to everything all the

1401
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,200
time

1402
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:01,520
never close off your mind never shut

1403
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:02,799
down we'll never

1404
00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:05,920
take steps forward if that's what we do

1405
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:09,119
but and this is the big but when it

1406
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:09,680
comes

1407
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:12,880
to rendleshim and

1408
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:16,319
other ufo cases the dogma

1409
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:18,720
and i will use that word that has been

1410
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:19,599
laid out

1411
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:24,000
for years becomes accepted reality

1412
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:27,440
and nobody wants to move off of that

1413
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:30,240
for their own reasons personal emotional

1414
00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:31,599
invested time

1415
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:34,160
whatever it is they're not going to go

1416
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:34,960
off of that

1417
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:38,559
path right and that is the biggest issue

1418
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:39,839
that confronts us

1419
00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:42,319
today and is front and center with your

1420
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:44,559
book isn't it

1421
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:47,200
yeah you're right and i mean you know

1422
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:49,119
it's um

1423
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:51,280
it's all it's almost kind of like on par

1424
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:53,440
with you know a kid finds out

1425
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:55,680
there was not wasn't a real santa claus

1426
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:57,200
you know that kind of thing

1427
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:00,319
and um it's a situation where

1428
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:03,440
the bigger the case the far more

1429
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:06,480
it becomes accepted and i think one of

1430
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:09,040
the main reasons why it becomes accepted

1431
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:11,680
is because it vindicates in the minds of

1432
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:12,559
many

1433
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:14,720
um the research they've been doing you

1434
00:57:17,670 --> 00:57:15,760
know that's

1435
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:17,680
if you've got some you know old guy and

1436
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,040
you followed who's

1437
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:21,200
85 years old you know he's been doing

1438
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:23,040
research for 60 years

1439
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:26,079
um it's hard for somebody like that

1440
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:29,839
to give up under one case that they

1441
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:33,760
devoted their lives to you know and um

1442
00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:35,920
so but you're right you know when you

1443
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:37,520
have a story

1444
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:40,319
or an event which has been researched on

1445
00:57:46,390 --> 00:57:42,799
the subject of numerous books

1446
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:46,400
and just about everybody is saying

1447
00:57:51,430 --> 00:57:49,040
it was extraterrestrial it is very

1448
00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:51,440
difficult for a lot of people to

1449
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:55,280
walk away and accept

1450
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:58,319
a new theory which actually doesn't

1451
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:00,559
support the ufo angle

1452
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:03,200
and um you know there's no doubt from

1453
00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:03,680
the

1454
00:58:11,109 --> 00:58:09,440
but um it's quite clear from you know

1455
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:11,119
some of the debates we've had

1456
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:14,480
that the the issues that are being

1457
00:58:18,309 --> 00:58:15,359
brought up

1458
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:18,319
uh sort of against me are emotional

1459
00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:19,200
issues

1460
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:23,520
rather than you know sort of data based

1461
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:25,599
you know it's nick's full of crap that

1462
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:26,880
kind of thing you know

1463
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:29,920
um he likes punk music and all this but

1464
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:30,960
you know

1465
00:58:37,750 --> 00:58:34,640
again

1466
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:37,760
when it becomes defensive and

1467
00:58:44,870 --> 00:58:41,200
it becomes an attack on the author

1468
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:44,880
rather than have a sort of

1469
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:48,480
face-to-face debate of the facts

1470
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:51,520
and um now there have been well

1471
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:54,880
see this is the thing and most people in

1472
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:56,880
ufology and i'm looking at the comments

1473
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:57,599
coming in

1474
00:59:01,030 --> 00:59:00,559
on twitter right now too as well about

1475
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:01,040
this

1476
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:03,040
and and i think something strange

1477
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:04,720
happened out there that's my

1478
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:07,599
own conclusion i've researched it enough

1479
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:08,640
for me to

1480
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:11,599
but i listened to everything and you

1481
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:12,400
bring up

1482
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:14,000
not only some things that need to be

1483
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:15,599
considered here

1484
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:18,960
but what you have uh researched and

1485
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:20,480
brought out in this book

1486
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:23,599
has been discussed about rendelsham

1487
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:26,079
for a long time it's just that nobody

1488
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:27,520
wanted to touch it

1489
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:31,280
and there was also uh a

1490
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:34,559
pretty solid uh story that started to go

1491
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,280
around

1492
00:59:39,670 --> 00:59:37,200
that it was all just a practical joke

1493
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:39,680
right the raf were playing a practical

1494
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:41,760
joke on the united states air force

1495
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:43,520
things were going back and forth between

1496
00:59:47,829 --> 00:59:45,040
the two bases and

1497
00:59:48,309 --> 00:59:47,839
and things were just happening so the

1498
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,319
brits

1499
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:50,480
just had to pull one over you know on

1500
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,079
the yanks kind of thing

1501
00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:54,960
even that story uh got a little bit of

1502
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:56,000
traction

1503
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:59,359
and it's so it it's not that we're

1504
01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:00,079
breaking new

1505
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:03,440
ground here it's that nobody wants to

1506
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:06,400
uh you know shift off of what they've

1507
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:08,079
already accepted it

1508
01:00:14,150 --> 01:00:11,119
when did you start to hear these other

1509
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:14,160
versions of randallshim

1510
01:00:18,069 --> 01:00:17,359
oh well um that that's an easy question

1511
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:18,079
to answer

1512
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:19,920
the first book that came out on

1513
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:22,960
rendlesham uh which was written by

1514
01:00:27,190 --> 01:00:25,680
brenda butler.street and jenny randalls

1515
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:27,200
it was called sky crash

1516
01:00:33,510 --> 01:00:30,799
and that came out in 1984 and even then

1517
01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:33,520
you know there were rumors of you know

1518
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:34,480
things like

1519
01:00:42,230 --> 01:00:38,720
early drones and early stealth craft

1520
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:42,240
and um you know sort of as maybe like a

1521
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:42,799
russian

1522
01:00:47,589 --> 01:00:45,440
satellite coming down that kind of thing

1523
01:00:49,109 --> 01:00:47,599
so those kind of the theories the

1524
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,119
alternative theories

1525
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:51,359
have been around you know for a long

1526
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:52,160
time

1527
01:00:56,069 --> 01:00:54,160
but i can tell you you know having been

1528
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:56,079
on the ufo scene for a long time

1529
01:01:00,630 --> 01:00:58,640
i can tell you one of the reasons why

1530
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:00,640
some people may actually

1531
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:03,119
privately you know agree with some of

1532
01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:04,000
what i say

1533
01:01:07,990 --> 01:01:06,480
but some of the people in ufology

1534
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:08,000
well-known figures on the lecture

1535
01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:08,880
circuit

1536
01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:12,640
will not um rock the boat for fear of

1537
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:14,640
of not getting being booked on the next

1538
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:16,640
lecture circuit i i see that now and

1539
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:18,079
again you know people

1540
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:21,280
who i know do not support

1541
01:01:24,710 --> 01:01:24,000
certain stories but they go fawning up

1542
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:24,720
to

1543
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:27,680
you know the big wigs in ufology hope

1544
01:01:31,910 --> 01:01:29,440
you know and to

1545
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:31,920
basically kissing their shoes kissing

1546
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:33,200
god knows what

1547
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:36,240
to basically ensure that you know

1548
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:38,079
they'll get three or four more new

1549
01:01:42,549 --> 01:01:40,079
conferences last year and to me that's

1550
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:42,559
kind of pathetic really you know i mean

1551
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:44,400
if you believe something if you can go

1552
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:45,599
to conclusion

1553
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:48,880
we'll tell it as it is don't just um

1554
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:51,440
don't just kiss us you know and say you

1555
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:52,000
agree with

1556
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:56,160
that's that's you know just

1557
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:57,680
like i said pathetic that's the best

1558
01:02:04,309 --> 01:01:59,280
word for it

1559
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:04,319
wouldn't wouldn't the story

1560
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:08,079
the reality uh if it if it's true

1561
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:11,200
wouldn't wouldn't that reality of it

1562
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:11,839
being

1563
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:15,200
a top-secret government experiment be

1564
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:18,240
a bigger story and more important

1565
01:02:26,069 --> 01:02:22,400
than if it was aliens is it is it that

1566
01:02:28,549 --> 01:02:26,079
isn't that significant well yeah i mean

1567
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:28,559
it's it's it would be significant if

1568
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:29,920
it's proved and

1569
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:32,480
of course you know even i have to admit

1570
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:33,760
you know there's a big difference

1571
01:02:39,910 --> 01:02:36,240
between having a scenario

1572
01:02:42,069 --> 01:02:39,920
based upon the data that i found and the

1573
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:42,079
interviews i've done for the book

1574
01:02:47,029 --> 01:02:45,440
you know that is not proof that's data

1575
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:47,039
that's information

1576
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:49,920
but if we have proof solid proof that

1577
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:52,240
aliens came down at rendlesham or solid

1578
01:02:55,829 --> 01:02:52,960
proof

1579
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:55,839
that it was a military experiment it

1580
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:56,640
would

1581
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:59,839
massively affect ufology because number

1582
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:00,640
one

1583
01:03:07,670 --> 01:03:04,319
it's it's up there with like

1584
01:03:10,710 --> 01:03:07,680
um roswell and cash landrum and

1585
01:03:13,589 --> 01:03:10,720
the phoenix lights all the big cases

1586
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:13,599
so people would then would be thinking

1587
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:15,039
or concluding

1588
01:03:19,109 --> 01:03:17,680
well if this big case has collapsed well

1589
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:19,119
how many of the others

1590
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:21,039
weren't ufo events so you had this

1591
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,240
spiraling

1592
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:24,799
aspect that could happen the other

1593
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:26,559
aspect that could actually

1594
01:03:33,270 --> 01:03:30,000
happen is the issue of well have we

1595
01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:33,280
been sort of deceived is are so many of

1596
01:03:38,549 --> 01:03:34,960
these ufo events just

1597
01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:38,559
um sort of tactical experiments

1598
01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:41,440
hidden under a ufo banner and then you

1599
01:03:44,789 --> 01:03:42,880
begin to think well

1600
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:44,799
how long has this been going on for is

1601
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:46,400
it just rendelsham

1602
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:49,440
is it multiple cases you know so

1603
01:03:54,870 --> 01:03:52,559
i think which whatever the answer is

1604
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:54,880
um it's going to be it's going to cause

1605
01:03:57,990 --> 01:03:55,599
big

1606
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:58,000
controversies if we can get the hard

1607
01:04:03,430 --> 01:04:00,240
proof and are you by proof i mean

1608
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:03,440
literal proof what i would also say

1609
01:04:06,789 --> 01:04:06,160
is that um you're right you know when

1610
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:06,799
you said

1611
01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:09,520
would it be more controversial than

1612
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,400
aliens

1613
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:12,720
i would probably say it would be on an

1614
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:14,640
equal part i mean if it was proved that

1615
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:16,720
aliens did come down in rendering forest

1616
01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:17,920
40 years ago

1617
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:20,160
that would be amazing and even i would

1618
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:22,720
be would be really you know really

1619
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:24,319
pleased if it was because it would

1620
01:04:29,829 --> 01:04:26,400
vindicate everything that we're doing

1621
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:29,839
that's right um but what i would say is

1622
01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:32,640
you know the idea of a top secret

1623
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:33,760
experiment

1624
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:36,880
using sophisticated holograms

1625
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,319
and in a situation where the the men

1626
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:42,480
out there really believe they were

1627
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:44,400
seeing something extraterrestrial

1628
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:46,240
when it was actually you know sort of

1629
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:48,000
projected phenomena

1630
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:51,119
um in many respects that would be

1631
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:53,280
more controversial and the reason why

1632
01:05:02,150 --> 01:04:54,960
it'd be more controversial

1633
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:02,160
would be because of successful

1634
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:05,520
you know that it actually um

1635
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:07,680
put so many people military personnel in

1636
01:05:11,349 --> 01:05:10,000
a situation where they really believed

1637
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:11,359
they were seeing something

1638
01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:13,920
extraterrestrial that in itself

1639
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:16,240
would be a powerful tool on the

1640
01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:17,839
battlefield you know

1641
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:20,960
you go into war and you have

1642
01:05:26,549 --> 01:05:24,319
this technology which you know the

1643
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:26,559
enemy sees something coming towards them

1644
01:05:32,710 --> 01:05:29,039
which may not be the real deal

1645
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:32,720
and it's you know potentially stuns them

1646
01:05:39,589 --> 01:05:36,480
you know and um chaos breaks out

1647
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:39,599
and i think that was as in terms of the

1648
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:41,359
interviews i did with the people

1649
01:05:45,670 --> 01:05:44,240
that was the primary goal was to see how

1650
01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:45,680
the human mind

1651
01:05:52,230 --> 01:05:49,119
could be manipulated and essentially

1652
01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:52,240
um if you can make people see aliens and

1653
01:05:55,589 --> 01:05:53,839
ufos

1654
01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:55,599
you sure as hell can get them to see

1655
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:57,680
anything you know that kind of thing

1656
01:06:01,349 --> 01:06:00,559
and and then it would be you know the

1657
01:06:04,390 --> 01:06:01,359
military

1658
01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:04,400
advantage of of creating that kind of

1659
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:05,359
imagery

1660
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:08,240
now who did you interview uh uh for the

1661
01:06:11,990 --> 01:06:09,599
book

1662
01:06:13,589 --> 01:06:12,000
well one of the most um there's 11

1663
01:06:16,150 --> 01:06:13,599
interviews in the book

1664
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:16,160
i would say without doubt the the most

1665
01:06:19,829 --> 01:06:17,440
important person

1666
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:19,839
i interviewed was a guy named ray

1667
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:21,119
beauche

1668
01:06:24,390 --> 01:06:23,680
now ray um he's actually he's still

1669
01:06:27,029 --> 01:06:24,400
active

1670
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:27,039
in the ufo scene today but back in the

1671
01:06:32,150 --> 01:06:29,119
mid 1980s he was the

1672
01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:32,160
state director for mufon the mutual

1673
01:06:38,950 --> 01:06:35,920
ufo network in nebraska and

1674
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:38,960
uh ray spent a lot of time looking into

1675
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:40,079
rendelsham

1676
01:06:44,069 --> 01:06:42,480
uh to the extent that he actually

1677
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:44,079
approached his senator

1678
01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:47,920
um senator exon and uh jim exon

1679
01:06:55,029 --> 01:06:51,920
and they had a lot of correspondence and

1680
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:55,039
it's quite clear from the correspondence

1681
01:06:59,190 --> 01:06:55,680
that ray

1682
01:07:00,309 --> 01:06:59,200
had with senator exon that he went a

1683
01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:00,319
long way

1684
01:07:04,470 --> 01:07:02,720
and up the chain of command in terms of

1685
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:04,480
the military

1686
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:07,520
and um ray found himself in this very

1687
01:07:11,349 --> 01:07:08,559
strange

1688
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:11,359
weird situation where it seemed that

1689
01:07:15,270 --> 01:07:13,200
somebody was watching him

1690
01:07:16,309 --> 01:07:15,280
and there was concerns as to what he'd

1691
01:07:20,390 --> 01:07:16,319
found

1692
01:07:23,829 --> 01:07:20,400
and the bear in mind this was 1985

1693
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:23,839
and he really dug deeply into

1694
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:27,119
um the whole randalsham thing

1695
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:31,039
and pursued it with senator exon and

1696
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:33,920
ray actually quite generously allowed me

1697
01:07:40,390 --> 01:07:36,640
to use some of that correspondence

1698
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:40,400
in the book and um but in 1991 there was

1699
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:42,480
another development with ray

1700
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:46,000
and he was approached um by two of the

1701
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:46,640
guys

1702
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:49,680
who actually worked on the hologram

1703
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:50,640
program

1704
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:53,920
and um and bear in mind as well that you

1705
01:07:59,430 --> 01:07:55,200
know when you talk about

1706
01:08:02,630 --> 01:07:59,440
credibility of people ray's not just um

1707
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:02,640
you know a former uh mufon

1708
01:08:09,270 --> 01:08:05,920
um director he's actually also

1709
01:08:12,549 --> 01:08:09,280
a working priest he's an anglican priest

1710
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,559
and um and he met with two of the men

1711
01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:14,000
working on the program

1712
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:17,199
who told him that yes randall did take

1713
01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:18,000
place

1714
01:08:23,910 --> 01:08:21,440
it was an astounding event but it wasn't

1715
01:08:25,510 --> 01:08:23,920
a ufo event it was as i said this

1716
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:25,520
holographic event

1717
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:28,080
and they basically told him that yes it

1718
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:30,000
was designed to see

1719
01:08:33,269 --> 01:08:32,799
how the human mind could be affected and

1720
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:33,279
how

1721
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:39,440
um just sort of blown away you know into

1722
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:40,480
a completely new

1723
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:43,600
scenario and he told me um you know the

1724
01:08:46,950 --> 01:08:44,400
exact um

1725
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:46,960
hotel where they had the meeting and how

1726
01:08:49,669 --> 01:08:48,000
they warned him

1727
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:49,679
you know if you get too close to this

1728
01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:52,640
kind of stuff you're to be being a world

1729
01:08:56,309 --> 01:08:54,319
of trouble that was actually the words

1730
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:56,319
they used a world of trouble

1731
01:09:00,550 --> 01:08:59,600
and um so ray without doubt was one of

1732
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:00,560
the most

1733
01:09:05,590 --> 01:09:03,839
important people i interviewed because

1734
01:09:07,030 --> 01:09:05,600
you know he was able to actually

1735
01:09:10,309 --> 01:09:07,040
penetrate

1736
01:09:11,110 --> 01:09:10,319
to a degree at least the the secrecy and

1737
01:09:17,269 --> 01:09:11,120
um

1738
01:09:18,070 --> 01:09:17,279
you know part of the story at least came

1739
01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:18,080
out

1740
01:09:21,510 --> 01:09:20,640
and um there's very few people who've

1741
01:09:23,829 --> 01:09:21,520
actually

1742
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,839
you know been able to penetrate that

1743
01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:25,440
part of the story

1744
01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:30,000
now what how do you overcome

1745
01:09:36,870 --> 01:09:33,120
the physical aspects of

1746
01:09:38,550 --> 01:09:36,880
rendelsham as opposed to holograms

1747
01:09:41,349 --> 01:09:38,560
which are are things that are not

1748
01:09:45,269 --> 01:09:41,359
physical and i'm referring to directly

1749
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:45,279
uh with uh you know john burroughs and

1750
01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:46,400
peniston

1751
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:50,000
when they were on

1752
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,000
uh just above the craft on that little

1753
01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:54,080
uh they got a little hill there

1754
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:56,000
they're on little rise depression and

1755
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:57,520
they're both laying down

1756
01:10:01,830 --> 01:10:00,159
and and john said on this program

1757
01:10:03,189 --> 01:10:01,840
anytime i've talked to him about this

1758
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:03,199
you know in person

1759
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:06,320
uh person to person too where he looked

1760
01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:08,880
up over the ridge and and saw the

1761
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:10,000
physical craft

1762
01:10:13,110 --> 01:10:11,760
sitting there and he couldn't believe

1763
01:10:16,709 --> 01:10:13,120
what he was seeing

1764
01:10:19,990 --> 01:10:16,719
now there's the other reports of uh

1765
01:10:23,189 --> 01:10:20,000
jim peniston actually physically

1766
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:23,199
touching the craft well how do we

1767
01:10:27,350 --> 01:10:24,239
overcome that

1768
01:10:28,070 --> 01:10:27,360
if it's a hologram well that's a good

1769
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:28,080
point and i

1770
01:10:32,310 --> 01:10:30,480
you know i i sort of talk about that in

1771
01:10:35,590 --> 01:10:32,320
the book i actually point out

1772
01:10:38,229 --> 01:10:35,600
or describe i should say um penister

1773
01:10:38,790 --> 01:10:38,239
and boris in the book as being two of

1774
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:38,800
the most

1775
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:42,560
important figures within the whole story

1776
01:10:46,630 --> 01:10:45,040
and um so you know that's that's an

1777
01:10:47,030 --> 01:10:46,640
important part of the story you know i

1778
01:10:49,510 --> 01:10:47,040
don't

1779
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:49,520
um dismiss them i actually point them

1780
01:10:52,950 --> 01:10:50,640
out as being

1781
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:52,960
you know two of the the most important

1782
01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:53,920
people

1783
01:10:57,510 --> 01:10:56,400
in everything in relation to randall

1784
01:11:00,630 --> 01:10:57,520
sharely

1785
01:11:03,669 --> 01:11:00,640
but the the story that was given to me

1786
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:03,679
was that it wasn't just um

1787
01:11:08,709 --> 01:11:06,719
the hallucinogenic side excuse me the um

1788
01:11:11,910 --> 01:11:08,719
the holographic side of this

1789
01:11:15,189 --> 01:11:11,920
there was also an hallucinogenic side up

1790
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:15,199
to it as well now this sort of gets into

1791
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:15,760
really

1792
01:11:18,870 --> 01:11:17,760
controversial areas and we sort of have

1793
01:11:22,229 --> 01:11:18,880
to go back

1794
01:11:24,550 --> 01:11:22,239
a little bit in time to 1964 and

1795
01:11:26,430 --> 01:11:24,560
a place in the south of uh southwest of

1796
01:11:29,830 --> 01:11:26,440
england called port and down

1797
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:29,840
p-o-r-t-o-n porting down porting down

1798
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:32,880
is where um the british government does

1799
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:34,400
a lot of its research

1800
01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:38,480
into uh things like um chemical warfare

1801
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:40,880
and particularly in the 50s 60s and 70s

1802
01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:43,360
they did a huge amount of research

1803
01:11:49,990 --> 01:11:46,560
into things like lsd and

1804
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,000
in 1964 and this isn't sort of hearsay

1805
01:11:55,669 --> 01:11:52,400
you can actually find it on the internet

1806
01:11:58,950 --> 01:11:55,679
um back in 1964

1807
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:58,960
um a team of scientists from port and

1808
01:12:02,790 --> 01:11:59,760
down

1809
01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:02,800
took a group of uk

1810
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:06,000
soldiers into an area of woods and

1811
01:12:11,270 --> 01:12:08,320
essentially dosed them with lsd

1812
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:11,280
and to see what the effects were and the

1813
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:12,560
effects were

1814
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:14,880
exact exactly as you would expect them

1815
01:12:18,630 --> 01:12:16,000
to be you know

1816
01:12:20,950 --> 01:12:18,640
people started to see her hallucinated

1817
01:12:24,910 --> 01:12:20,960
and saw things that weren't there

1818
01:12:27,830 --> 01:12:24,920
and the if you if you if you google

1819
01:12:31,030 --> 01:12:27,840
1964 port and down

1820
01:12:32,790 --> 01:12:31,040
lsd you'll actually see the original

1821
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:32,800
film footage the black and white film

1822
01:12:36,630 --> 01:12:33,600
footage

1823
01:12:37,990 --> 01:12:36,640
taken by the british army itself and you

1824
01:12:41,430 --> 01:12:38,000
see these guys

1825
01:12:44,149 --> 01:12:41,440
wandering around the woods basically in

1826
01:12:47,270 --> 01:12:44,159
a state of hallucinogenic

1827
01:12:50,630 --> 01:12:47,280
mania so to speak and

1828
01:12:52,470 --> 01:12:50,640
that's so that was 64. now people

1829
01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:52,480
have sort of suggested well could that

1830
01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:54,400
have been what happened in

1831
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:57,440
1980 something very similar well one of

1832
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:59,520
the people who looked into this was lord

1833
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:00,719
hill norton

1834
01:13:11,830 --> 01:13:07,440
ranking military personnel in the uk

1835
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:11,840
in the 1970s and he had a deep interest

1836
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:15,440
in randall schinforest the case and

1837
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:17,920
he the more he looked into it he found

1838
01:13:22,229 --> 01:13:19,520
out that on the night

1839
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:22,239
of the um the first incident in

1840
01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:23,600
rendelsham forest

1841
01:13:27,110 --> 01:13:26,400
that a team had been secretly brought up

1842
01:13:30,550 --> 01:13:27,120
to render

1843
01:13:31,110 --> 01:13:30,560
forest from port and down all dressed in

1844
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:31,120
hazmat

1845
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:34,719
outfits and the the theory that he was

1846
01:13:39,030 --> 01:13:35,920
pursuing

1847
01:13:41,590 --> 01:13:39,040
was that um hallucinogenics had been

1848
01:13:42,550 --> 01:13:41,600
sort of aerosol based hallucinogenics

1849
01:13:45,430 --> 01:13:42,560
had been

1850
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:45,440
released like low-grade hallucinogenics

1851
01:13:49,910 --> 01:13:46,400
had been

1852
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:49,920
released into the woods at the same time

1853
01:13:56,550 --> 01:13:53,040
that the um the experiment was going on

1854
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:56,560
so you had not just the guys exposed to

1855
01:14:01,350 --> 01:13:57,600
the

1856
01:14:04,870 --> 01:14:01,360
holograms but also placed in a

1857
01:14:05,990 --> 01:14:04,880
hallucinogenic state as well uh courtesy

1858
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:06,000
of port and down

1859
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:09,040
now as i said you know the the film

1860
01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:11,040
footage as i said you can see it's on

1861
01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,320
youtube and it's sort of

1862
01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:14,560
extremely graphic you know these guys

1863
01:14:18,229 --> 01:14:16,480
just not knowing what they're doing just

1864
01:14:20,790 --> 01:14:18,239
wandering around the woods

1865
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:20,800
and as i said whole hill norton was one

1866
01:14:26,229 --> 01:14:21,600
of the most

1867
01:14:28,390 --> 01:14:26,239
high-ranking powerful military um

1868
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:28,400
personnel you know within the british

1869
01:14:32,709 --> 01:14:29,280
military

1870
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:32,719
in that period and of the 1970s and 80s

1871
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:32,960
and

1872
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:37,199
perfect person

1873
01:14:41,189 --> 01:14:40,159
to to learn about this port and down

1874
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:41,199
connection

1875
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:44,640
um with reynoldshum so to get back to

1876
01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:46,080
the point you know

1877
01:14:50,950 --> 01:14:49,360
i think as i said i i believe

1878
01:14:53,669 --> 01:14:50,960
all the guys you know they're all

1879
01:14:54,630 --> 01:14:53,679
credible and i believe that what they

1880
01:14:59,669 --> 01:14:54,640
saw

1881
01:15:01,990 --> 01:14:59,679
so to speak

1882
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:02,000
you know but what they saw may not

1883
01:15:05,830 --> 01:15:02,800
actually or

1884
01:15:06,870 --> 01:15:05,840
they perceived may not have been exactly

1885
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:06,880
as it was

1886
01:15:14,229 --> 01:15:11,199
due to that uh lsd uh hallucinogenic

1887
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:14,239
um important down connection so

1888
01:15:18,390 --> 01:15:16,800
in other words you know trying to figure

1889
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:18,400
out what people saw

1890
01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:21,360
if low grade low grade hallucinogenics

1891
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:21,920
were

1892
01:15:26,149 --> 01:15:24,000
released into the woods then it becomes

1893
01:15:29,669 --> 01:15:26,159
extremely difficult

1894
01:15:32,870 --> 01:15:29,679
to understand what was actually seen

1895
01:15:34,950 --> 01:15:32,880
now what about uh you know everybody

1896
01:15:36,830 --> 01:15:34,960
that was directly involved uh

1897
01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:36,840
you know like halt and peniston and

1898
01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:38,800
burrows

1899
01:15:42,709 --> 01:15:41,520
i know that jim said that there may have

1900
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:42,719
been

1901
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:44,400
something introduced and maybe somebody

1902
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:46,400
else did during the interrogations i'd

1903
01:15:51,830 --> 01:15:48,400
have to go back and remember all of that

1904
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:51,840
but halt said that that never happened

1905
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:52,400
um

1906
01:15:55,669 --> 01:15:54,560
others are not so sure but that being

1907
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:55,679
the case

1908
01:16:00,149 --> 01:15:58,080
has anybody nobody's has said anything

1909
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:00,159
to me about them feeling

1910
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:03,840
high or maybe something else was going

1911
01:16:07,990 --> 01:16:04,800
on there

1912
01:16:08,709 --> 01:16:08,000
other than a physical incident has has

1913
01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:08,719
peniston

1914
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:11,120
or or halt or borough said anything

1915
01:16:15,910 --> 01:16:11,920
about

1916
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:15,920
the possibility of a hallucinogen

1917
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:17,840
well i mean if you actually look at the

1918
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:19,520
story you know drugs

1919
01:16:23,590 --> 01:16:21,760
and things like this do pop up in the

1920
01:16:26,229 --> 01:16:23,600
story now and again

1921
01:16:26,950 --> 01:16:26,239
for example for years i mean charles

1922
01:16:30,630 --> 01:16:26,960
hult

1923
01:16:33,830 --> 01:16:30,640
has stated that he felt um that

1924
01:16:34,870 --> 01:16:33,840
larry warren had been quote meddled with

1925
01:16:36,709 --> 01:16:34,880
um

1926
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:36,719
and that was that was his actual word

1927
01:16:39,270 --> 01:16:38,239
you know he said he felt that larry

1928
01:16:41,990 --> 01:16:39,280
warren had been

1929
01:16:42,550 --> 01:16:42,000
meddled in some fashion he's mine had

1930
01:16:46,149 --> 01:16:42,560
been

1931
01:16:48,790 --> 01:16:46,159
um meddled with now um

1932
01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:48,800
jim penniston for example he was put

1933
01:16:52,630 --> 01:16:49,440
under

1934
01:16:56,790 --> 01:16:52,640
sodium pentathol when he was interviewed

1935
01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:56,800
um you know so you do have these sort of

1936
01:17:03,830 --> 01:16:59,920
um snippets if you like of

1937
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:03,840
drugs um you know that potentially

1938
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:06,239
you know um as a well not potentially

1939
01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:08,080
but does have an effect on the human

1940
01:17:11,910 --> 01:17:08,880
mind

1941
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:11,920
um so you know you can look at it from

1942
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:13,600
that perspective when particularly when

1943
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:14,960
you tie it in

1944
01:17:20,470 --> 01:17:18,159
with um the whole angle of porting down

1945
01:17:21,750 --> 01:17:20,480
you know which was as i said in the 50s

1946
01:17:24,550 --> 01:17:21,760
and 60s was the actual

1947
01:17:25,669 --> 01:17:24,560
absolute hub in the uk government for

1948
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:25,679
research

1949
01:17:32,149 --> 01:17:29,600
into lsd and not just lsd but other

1950
01:17:35,270 --> 01:17:32,159
mind-altering technologies that could be

1951
01:17:35,830 --> 01:17:35,280
used on the battlefield to disable the

1952
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:35,840
enemy

1953
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:38,880
you know so um there's a lot of weird

1954
01:17:42,470 --> 01:17:41,280
snippets and threads like this you know

1955
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:42,480
sort of

1956
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:45,120
offshoots of the main story like as i

1957
01:17:49,110 --> 01:17:46,480
said like port and down

1958
01:17:50,149 --> 01:17:49,120
scientists in hazmats going in and out

1959
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:50,159
the woods i mean

1960
01:17:53,189 --> 01:17:52,400
that was one that as i said that hill

1961
01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:53,199
norton

1962
01:17:57,510 --> 01:17:56,400
was absolutely sort of um chasing down

1963
01:17:59,430 --> 01:17:57,520
before he died

1964
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:59,440
now let's uh we need to take a break

1965
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:00,880
right here and i just noticed that

1966
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:03,600
jim peniston is uh jumping in here on

1967
01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:05,040
twitter i don't know if he's

1968
01:18:08,709 --> 01:18:06,719
listening to the show we're just

1969
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:08,719
responding to comments but

1970
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:11,040
yeah i never know who is listening to

1971
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:11,760
this show

1972
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:14,080
nick so there you go let's take our

1973
01:18:17,590 --> 01:18:15,760
break right here this is fade to black

1974
01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:17,600
our guest tonight nick redfearn

1975
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:20,159
we are discussing his sensational new

1976
01:18:25,189 --> 01:18:21,440
book it is called

1977
01:18:26,709 --> 01:18:25,199
the rendal shim forest uh ufo conspiracy

1978
01:18:29,910 --> 01:18:26,719
and let me make sure i'm doing this

1979
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:29,920
right i am a close encounter exposed

1980
01:18:33,830 --> 01:18:32,719
as a top secret government experiment

1981
01:18:36,070 --> 01:18:33,840
this is fade to black

1982
01:18:39,860 --> 01:18:36,080
more with nick after this short break

1983
01:19:06,830 --> 01:18:39,870
stay with us

1984
01:19:18,229 --> 01:19:06,840
[Music]

1985
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:21,270
welcome back fade to black i am your

1986
01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:23,040
host jimmy church tonight nick redfearn

1987
01:19:26,070 --> 01:19:24,400
is here we're talking about his new book

1988
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,080
the links for the new book

1989
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:28,320
are over at jimmychurchradio.com it is

1990
01:19:31,030 --> 01:19:29,840
called the rental shim forest ufo

1991
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:31,040
conspiracy

1992
01:19:35,189 --> 01:19:33,120
a close encounter exposed as a top

1993
01:19:36,950 --> 01:19:35,199
secret government experiment

1994
01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:36,960
now nick i may be wrong here and i

1995
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:38,800
apologize in advance uh

1996
01:19:45,510 --> 01:19:42,239
for what i'm about to ask you but uh

1997
01:19:46,470 --> 01:19:45,520
wasn't your father uh he was a radar

1998
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:46,480
operator

1999
01:19:52,390 --> 01:19:50,159
do i remember this right yeah he was um

2000
01:19:54,310 --> 01:19:52,400
my dad was um a radar mechanic in the

2001
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:54,320
british royal air force right

2002
01:19:57,430 --> 01:19:57,120
um he spent most of his time actually

2003
01:20:00,870 --> 01:19:57,440
not

2004
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:00,880
too far as the as the crow flies so to

2005
01:20:04,709 --> 01:20:03,600
speak a place called raf neat his head

2006
01:20:09,510 --> 01:20:04,719
um

2007
01:20:13,189 --> 01:20:09,520
mechanic and he was actually involved

2008
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:13,199
in three ufo events where

2009
01:20:21,189 --> 01:20:17,120
um high flying fast moving

2010
01:20:24,950 --> 01:20:21,199
objects performing all sorts of weird um

2011
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:24,960
movements were picked up on radar and um

2012
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,840
this went on as i said across three

2013
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:29,280
incidents and

2014
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:31,440
that's really what got me interested in

2015
01:20:34,709 --> 01:20:32,800
the subject and i mean

2016
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:34,719
i would i would stress to people you

2017
01:20:39,430 --> 01:20:37,120
know i'm not a ufo skeptic

2018
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:39,440
i'm a rendlesham skeptic that's two very

2019
01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:40,880
different things you know

2020
01:20:45,350 --> 01:20:44,080
yeah sure yeah so when my dad told me

2021
01:20:48,229 --> 01:20:45,360
that when i was about

2022
01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:48,239
11 or 12 you know he got me interested

2023
01:20:51,590 --> 01:20:49,440
not because it was my own

2024
01:20:53,510 --> 01:20:51,600
just because of my own dad but also

2025
01:20:54,390 --> 01:20:53,520
because you know he was trained in the

2026
01:20:58,390 --> 01:20:54,400
military

2027
01:20:59,510 --> 01:20:58,400
on radar as a mechanic and um

2028
01:21:01,910 --> 01:20:59,520
and that's sort of what got me

2029
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:01,920
interested in you know reading about the

2030
01:21:06,070 --> 01:21:03,120
ufo subject

2031
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:06,080
so um you know and when you when you

2032
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:07,760
speak to someone like i said you know

2033
01:21:11,030 --> 01:21:09,360
it's not just your own father but

2034
01:21:14,310 --> 01:21:11,040
somebody who is

2035
01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:14,320
you know well versed in the military um

2036
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:16,159
well would someone account for a lot you

2037
01:21:21,189 --> 01:21:18,000
know really yeah and

2038
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:21,199
uh i uh i would say that that suggests

2039
01:21:25,030 --> 01:21:22,320
that you understand

2040
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:25,040
radar and you've got a pretty strong

2041
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,560
interest in it you brought it up a few

2042
01:21:31,830 --> 01:21:28,800
times on the show so

2043
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:31,840
with rendell shim what do you do

2044
01:21:35,590 --> 01:21:34,719
with the radar aspect of it of the

2045
01:21:38,629 --> 01:21:35,600
reports

2046
01:21:40,470 --> 01:21:38,639
of tracking on radar

2047
01:21:42,550 --> 01:21:40,480
and if this is something that is a

2048
01:21:45,350 --> 01:21:42,560
non-physical situation

2049
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:45,360
how do you approach the radar data when

2050
01:21:49,830 --> 01:21:47,440
it comes to rendlesham

2051
01:21:51,990 --> 01:21:49,840
well yeah i talk about that in the the

2052
01:21:54,830 --> 01:21:52,000
book as well and i refer to the

2053
01:21:56,470 --> 01:21:54,840
work of a guy named jean poultier

2054
01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:56,480
p-o-t-e-t

2055
01:22:01,510 --> 01:22:00,400
who um spent a lot of time in the 50s

2056
01:22:05,189 --> 01:22:01,520
and 60s

2057
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:05,199
um doing deep uh research and

2058
01:22:10,070 --> 01:22:06,719
investigations

2059
01:22:13,510 --> 01:22:10,080
into how to create um bogus

2060
01:22:16,709 --> 01:22:13,520
ghost imagery um on right on

2061
01:22:18,149 --> 01:22:16,719
enemy radar screens basically to sort of

2062
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:18,159
fool the enemy

2063
01:22:23,510 --> 01:22:21,840
and my um conclu well my theory i should

2064
01:22:26,229 --> 01:22:23,520
say

2065
01:22:27,750 --> 01:22:26,239
is that um something along those lines

2066
01:22:31,350 --> 01:22:27,760
was going on to

2067
01:22:34,470 --> 01:22:31,360
to try and um you know push the

2068
01:22:36,709 --> 01:22:34,480
the radar aspect you know to demonstrate

2069
01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:36,719
yes there was something in the sky but

2070
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:38,000
using sort of the kind

2071
01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:41,520
of technology that uh paltia developed

2072
01:22:46,470 --> 01:22:44,719
you know you can easily see how radar

2073
01:22:49,750 --> 01:22:46,480
screens can be fooled by

2074
01:22:51,430 --> 01:22:49,760
sort of ghost imagery and um

2075
01:22:53,189 --> 01:22:51,440
i mean one of the interesting things as

2076
01:22:56,790 --> 01:22:53,199
to why i think

2077
01:22:58,149 --> 01:22:56,800
the radar aspect was sort of inserted

2078
01:23:01,110 --> 01:22:58,159
into the story

2079
01:23:02,229 --> 01:23:01,120
was the um revolves around a guy named

2080
01:23:06,470 --> 01:23:02,239
paul begg

2081
01:23:09,470 --> 01:23:06,480
a story

2082
01:23:11,030 --> 01:23:09,480
at royal air force watton watson

2083
01:23:14,229 --> 01:23:11,040
w-a-t-t-o-n

2084
01:23:17,270 --> 01:23:14,239
um and supposedly u.s

2085
01:23:20,310 --> 01:23:17,280
military personnel came along and

2086
01:23:23,189 --> 01:23:20,320
took away some of the the data

2087
01:23:24,070 --> 01:23:23,199
and casually told the royal air force

2088
01:23:26,229 --> 01:23:24,080
personnel

2089
01:23:27,189 --> 01:23:26,239
oh you know we've got to check out these

2090
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:27,199
radar

2091
01:23:31,590 --> 01:23:29,760
uh tapes because a ufo has crashed you

2092
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:31,600
know that that's not how the military

2093
01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:33,600
works they don't casually

2094
01:23:39,110 --> 01:23:36,960
you know go to another military base and

2095
01:23:41,669 --> 01:23:39,120
say oh you know we just yeah we just you

2096
01:23:44,870 --> 01:23:41,679
know ufo's come down we've got the tapes

2097
01:23:47,669 --> 01:23:44,880
um it's almost as if you know that was

2098
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:47,679
inserted deliberately

2099
01:23:51,830 --> 01:23:51,120
um sort of expand the you know the

2100
01:23:54,070 --> 01:23:51,840
rumors

2101
01:23:55,270 --> 01:23:54,080
about a ufo coming down you know that

2102
01:23:58,070 --> 01:23:55,280
that to me

2103
01:23:59,430 --> 01:23:58,080
you know kind of sounds suspicious that

2104
01:24:02,950 --> 01:23:59,440
they would have been so

2105
01:24:03,750 --> 01:24:02,960
open about talking about a ufo event it

2106
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:03,760
makes it

2107
01:24:08,149 --> 01:24:06,719
sad to me it sounds like you know it was

2108
01:24:11,189 --> 01:24:08,159
pushing the

2109
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:11,199
ufo angle a little bit too much

2110
01:24:15,030 --> 01:24:14,159
now has uh has john burroughs reached

2111
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:15,040
out to you

2112
01:24:21,510 --> 01:24:18,080
yet no he hasn't but

2113
01:24:24,550 --> 01:24:21,520
um just two days ago um

2114
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:24,560
kevin randle who's written several books

2115
01:24:30,709 --> 01:24:27,840
on um on roswell um

2116
01:24:31,990 --> 01:24:30,719
kevin um asked me just a few days ago to

2117
01:24:33,590 --> 01:24:32,000
be on his show

2118
01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:33,600
and he happened to mention to me that

2119
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:35,280
he'd spoken to john

2120
01:24:39,270 --> 01:24:38,560
and he said that john uh was was open to

2121
01:24:42,149 --> 01:24:39,280
the

2122
01:24:42,950 --> 01:24:42,159
quote secret experiment aspect of all

2123
01:24:46,310 --> 01:24:42,960
this

2124
01:24:48,709 --> 01:24:46,320
um and as i said that that was

2125
01:24:50,390 --> 01:24:48,719
straight from um kevin's mouth well i

2126
01:24:53,910 --> 01:24:50,400
should say from his keyboard

2127
01:24:56,709 --> 01:24:53,920
um two days ago so that in itself

2128
01:24:59,510 --> 01:24:56,719
is you know is an interesting aspect

2129
01:25:00,629 --> 01:24:59,520
that um you know we've got kevin randle

2130
01:25:02,950 --> 01:25:00,639
one of the chief

2131
01:25:04,149 --> 01:25:02,960
randall's excuse me roswell researchers

2132
01:25:07,510 --> 01:25:04,159
and authors

2133
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:07,520
chatting with john who then mentions you

2134
01:25:09,830 --> 01:25:09,120
know he was open to the secret

2135
01:25:13,110 --> 01:25:09,840
experiment

2136
01:25:15,830 --> 01:25:13,120
angle and um and

2137
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:15,840
kevin wanted wants me to be on his show

2138
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:17,679
to talk about that so i'm sure

2139
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:20,880
because john excuse me because kevin

2140
01:25:25,590 --> 01:25:22,560
mentioned all of this

2141
01:25:26,709 --> 01:25:25,600
um to me you know i'm sure he's going to

2142
01:25:30,870 --> 01:25:26,719
bring that up

2143
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:30,880
so um again it demonstrates that

2144
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:33,600
um you know you've got jim who concludes

2145
01:25:38,550 --> 01:25:34,800
that he did have you know

2146
01:25:42,629 --> 01:25:38,560
a ufo event um and

2147
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:42,639
you've got john according to um

2148
01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:45,600
what kevin said that was open to the ufo

2149
01:25:49,270 --> 01:25:47,040
side of it excuse me to the

2150
01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:49,280
experiment side of it all so you know

2151
01:25:53,189 --> 01:25:50,080
the whole thing

2152
01:25:56,550 --> 01:25:53,199
is is um you know very

2153
01:25:58,870 --> 01:25:56,560
sort of con confusing and just

2154
01:25:59,750 --> 01:25:58,880
you know you it's really difficult to

2155
01:26:02,149 --> 01:25:59,760
try and

2156
01:26:02,870 --> 01:26:02,159
you know put the full picture together

2157
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:02,880
when

2158
01:26:06,629 --> 01:26:05,760
you know if you take my theory out of

2159
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:06,639
the story

2160
01:26:10,870 --> 01:26:08,960
there's still multiple theories i mean

2161
01:26:12,629 --> 01:26:10,880
for example

2162
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:12,639
as i said earlier people have talked

2163
01:26:18,629 --> 01:26:15,440
about soviet craft coming down

2164
01:26:21,510 --> 01:26:18,639
um possibly something like an early

2165
01:26:24,149 --> 01:26:21,520
drone or an early stealth

2166
01:26:26,709 --> 01:26:24,159
um you know all sorts of like the

2167
01:26:29,189 --> 01:26:26,719
lighthouse you know things like this so

2168
01:26:32,390 --> 01:26:29,199
that that's one of the one of the kind

2169
01:26:34,550 --> 01:26:32,400
of almost unusual aspects of the case

2170
01:26:36,629 --> 01:26:34,560
is that there are multiple theories now

2171
01:26:38,310 --> 01:26:36,639
of course they can't all be right

2172
01:26:39,830 --> 01:26:38,320
you know there's just no way they could

2173
01:26:41,910 --> 01:26:39,840
be but

2174
01:26:43,350 --> 01:26:41,920
there are multiple theories out there

2175
01:26:46,310 --> 01:26:43,360
you know well

2176
01:26:48,149 --> 01:26:46,320
we have to uh we all have come to the

2177
01:26:49,350 --> 01:26:48,159
conclusion that something happened over

2178
01:26:51,750 --> 01:26:49,360
those three days

2179
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:51,760
there's no question about that and i

2180
01:26:56,310 --> 01:26:53,760
have pushed i can imagine

2181
01:26:58,390 --> 01:26:56,320
after this broadcast tonight nick that i

2182
01:26:59,910 --> 01:26:58,400
will hear from all of the players over

2183
01:27:03,110 --> 01:26:59,920
the next couple of days okay

2184
01:27:04,870 --> 01:27:03,120
and so that that's fine but i have

2185
01:27:08,470 --> 01:27:04,880
pushed uh

2186
01:27:11,510 --> 01:27:08,480
uh most of them on the alien

2187
01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:11,520
and e.t aspect of this to get somebody

2188
01:27:15,669 --> 01:27:12,800
to say that

2189
01:27:17,110 --> 01:27:15,679
i've never had anybody that's directly

2190
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:17,120
involved with the k-state now

2191
01:27:21,030 --> 01:27:20,400
it was definitively ufos and that

2192
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:21,040
includes

2193
01:27:24,629 --> 01:27:23,040
john burroughs you know john burroughs

2194
01:27:26,629 --> 01:27:24,639
knows something happened

2195
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:26,639
of course and he's talked about it many

2196
01:27:30,550 --> 01:27:28,000
times on this program and

2197
01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:30,560
some of the most compelling eyewitness

2198
01:27:35,990 --> 01:27:32,960
testimony that you will ever hear

2199
01:27:39,510 --> 01:27:36,000
is uh john burroughs on this show but

2200
01:27:41,189 --> 01:27:39,520
he has never you know crossed that line

2201
01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:41,199
you know something has caused him

2202
01:27:44,950 --> 01:27:43,440
physically to have been changed

2203
01:27:46,629 --> 01:27:44,960
there's there's no question about that

2204
01:27:47,189 --> 01:27:46,639
he witnessed something and so did

2205
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:47,199
everybody

2206
01:27:53,350 --> 01:27:50,400
else but uh crossing the line into

2207
01:27:53,750 --> 01:27:53,360
aliens and e.t has never been something

2208
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:53,760
that

2209
01:27:57,590 --> 01:27:56,639
has uh been positively broached by all

2210
01:28:00,709 --> 01:27:57,600
of the witnesses

2211
01:28:01,669 --> 01:28:00,719
that's my opinion jim peniston has said

2212
01:28:04,070 --> 01:28:01,679
that he thinks it's

2213
01:28:05,750 --> 01:28:04,080
time travelers from the future that it

2214
01:28:09,669 --> 01:28:05,760
was us that it wasn't

2215
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:09,679
uh necessarily e.t right

2216
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:11,120
well yeah i mean these are you know

2217
01:28:16,229 --> 01:28:12,960
there's there's multiple theories and

2218
01:28:18,790 --> 01:28:16,239
i mean as i said earlier if it turns out

2219
01:28:19,510 --> 01:28:18,800
that we have proof not sort of theories

2220
01:28:22,950 --> 01:28:19,520
or

2221
01:28:25,590 --> 01:28:22,960
get proof

2222
01:28:26,950 --> 01:28:25,600
that aliens did come down in randallship

2223
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:26,960
forest you know i'd be as happy as

2224
01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:28,000
everybody else because

2225
01:28:33,910 --> 01:28:31,040
as i said earlier it would vindicate

2226
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:33,920
totally vindicate everything that the

2227
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:34,719
ufo

2228
01:28:41,910 --> 01:28:38,800
research community has been looking for

2229
01:28:42,390 --> 01:28:41,920
and but it requests um you know it's

2230
01:28:45,669 --> 01:28:42,400
sort of

2231
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:45,679
um it's a situation where we have to

2232
01:28:49,510 --> 01:28:46,800
have the proof

2233
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:49,520
you know one way or another but uh and

2234
01:28:52,629 --> 01:28:50,080
you know

2235
01:28:54,310 --> 01:28:52,639
and if it turns out it was alien all

2236
01:28:57,270 --> 01:28:54,320
happy to be happy to say

2237
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:57,280
sorry yep got it wrong but the fact is i

2238
01:29:01,990 --> 01:28:58,960
don't think i am wrong

2239
01:29:03,830 --> 01:29:02,000
but you know i am quite open

2240
01:29:05,750 --> 01:29:03,840
you know if i get it wrong well that's

2241
01:29:09,030 --> 01:29:05,760
how it goes you know

2242
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:09,040
and so i think

2243
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:10,560
we can look at it from different

2244
01:29:16,229 --> 01:29:13,120
perspectives different angles

2245
01:29:18,709 --> 01:29:16,239
but 40 years after debating all these

2246
01:29:20,550 --> 01:29:18,719
different theories and different ideas

2247
01:29:23,350 --> 01:29:20,560
we're still debating it you know on your

2248
01:29:26,229 --> 01:29:23,360
show tonight yeah that's not true that's

2249
01:29:28,149 --> 01:29:26,239
you know if that's a positive thing or

2250
01:29:31,270 --> 01:29:28,159
not that we're talking about it's still

2251
01:29:33,110 --> 01:29:31,280
after 40 years you know i would hope

2252
01:29:34,629 --> 01:29:33,120
when i first heard about the you know

2253
01:29:37,030 --> 01:29:34,639
the case when

2254
01:29:38,709 --> 01:29:37,040
i was just a teenager you know when when

2255
01:29:41,750 --> 01:29:38,719
the first book came out

2256
01:29:42,550 --> 01:29:41,760
sky crash i was still a teenager i i you

2257
01:29:43,830 --> 01:29:42,560
know i'm sure

2258
01:29:46,149 --> 01:29:43,840
back then i would have thought if

2259
01:29:47,590 --> 01:29:46,159
somebody said 40 years later you still

2260
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:47,600
won't have the answer

2261
01:29:52,790 --> 01:29:50,000
i would have been i would have thought

2262
01:29:55,990 --> 01:29:52,800
well of course we'll know after 40 years

2263
01:29:57,669 --> 01:29:56,000
but 40 years later we are still debating

2264
01:29:59,030 --> 01:29:57,679
it and as i said i'm not sure that's a

2265
01:30:03,270 --> 01:29:59,040
good thing

2266
01:30:05,910 --> 01:30:03,280
the perspective that we can continue

2267
01:30:07,110 --> 01:30:05,920
to look for data but it's a bad thing in

2268
01:30:10,229 --> 01:30:07,120
the sense that we've

2269
01:30:13,750 --> 01:30:10,239
we just haven't got the proof and

2270
01:30:17,189 --> 01:30:13,760
by proof i mean you know literal proof

2271
01:30:20,790 --> 01:30:17,199
rather than opinions yeah and

2272
01:30:24,470 --> 01:30:20,800
now there's another aspect to this

2273
01:30:26,310 --> 01:30:24,480
uh john burroughs and charles halt

2274
01:30:27,510 --> 01:30:26,320
are two of the most tenacious people

2275
01:30:30,629 --> 01:30:27,520
that i know

2276
01:30:32,709 --> 01:30:30,639
they they are definitely willing to go

2277
01:30:33,990 --> 01:30:32,719
the extra mile trying to figure out what

2278
01:30:36,550 --> 01:30:34,000
happened there

2279
01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:36,560
and they have very strong personalities

2280
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:37,920
and i have a lot of respect for them

2281
01:30:41,830 --> 01:30:38,800
both

2282
01:30:44,310 --> 01:30:41,840
but for them and especially

2283
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:44,320
well for these two but with like colonel

2284
01:30:48,870 --> 01:30:45,040
halt

2285
01:30:51,830 --> 01:30:48,880
if he finds out that he was part of

2286
01:30:53,590 --> 01:30:51,840
an experiment and he was a guinea pig

2287
01:30:54,709 --> 01:30:53,600
with the things that he witnessed on

2288
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:54,719
tape and

2289
01:30:59,110 --> 01:30:57,920
you know over the ammo dumps and and

2290
01:31:02,149 --> 01:30:59,120
throughout the forest

2291
01:31:03,669 --> 01:31:02,159
and and the write-up that he did you

2292
01:31:06,950 --> 01:31:03,679
know the halt memo

2293
01:31:08,870 --> 01:31:06,960
and and including the illnesses uh that

2294
01:31:12,310 --> 01:31:08,880
john burroughs has gone through

2295
01:31:13,990 --> 01:31:12,320
trying to chase down what was going on

2296
01:31:15,669 --> 01:31:14,000
they're not going to be happy people are

2297
01:31:18,070 --> 01:31:15,679
they

2298
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:18,080
well i think it's like in any situation

2299
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:18,719
where

2300
01:31:22,149 --> 01:31:21,520
you know somebody is deceived i mean you

2301
01:31:29,189 --> 01:31:22,159
want

2302
01:31:30,870 --> 01:31:29,199
the situation put right and i think this

2303
01:31:33,110 --> 01:31:30,880
you know again whichever side you look

2304
01:31:36,149 --> 01:31:33,120
at it whether it was an experiment

2305
01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:36,159
or whether it was a ufo um i'm

2306
01:31:40,390 --> 01:31:38,960
sure all the guys would like to know

2307
01:31:42,950 --> 01:31:40,400
what the truth was

2308
01:31:43,990 --> 01:31:42,960
and what it was that was held from them

2309
01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:44,000
you know withheld from

2310
01:31:48,390 --> 01:31:47,600
them because you know again regardless

2311
01:31:51,669 --> 01:31:48,400
of whether you

2312
01:31:55,110 --> 01:31:51,679
think it's a an experiment or ufos

2313
01:31:55,830 --> 01:31:55,120
the fact is you know the guys were not

2314
01:31:59,030 --> 01:31:55,840
given

2315
01:32:01,669 --> 01:31:59,040
a satisf satisfactory response

2316
01:32:02,550 --> 01:32:01,679
or you know they were never given the

2317
01:32:05,669 --> 01:32:02,560
full picture

2318
01:32:07,669 --> 01:32:05,679
they weren't sort of um informed

2319
01:32:09,750 --> 01:32:07,679
you know of what happened to them and

2320
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:09,760
why and so

2321
01:32:13,750 --> 01:32:11,040
one of the main reasons why they're

2322
01:32:17,030 --> 01:32:13,760
still frustrated because they cannot get

2323
01:32:19,350 --> 01:32:17,040
the answers so you know in that sense

2324
01:32:20,790 --> 01:32:19,360
this sort of comes round to the

2325
01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:20,800
emotional side

2326
01:32:25,270 --> 01:32:23,760
of rendelsham which there is a huge

2327
01:32:27,590 --> 01:32:25,280
emotional side to it

2328
01:32:29,510 --> 01:32:27,600
you know which which you can understand

2329
01:32:32,310 --> 01:32:29,520
you know if you were one of the guys

2330
01:32:34,470 --> 01:32:32,320
and 40 years later you're still forced

2331
01:32:38,149 --> 01:32:34,480
to ponder on this and wonder

2332
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:38,159
because you never were told that must be

2333
01:32:41,910 --> 01:32:40,960
you know something that grinds on you so

2334
01:32:44,310 --> 01:32:41,920
um

2335
01:32:46,470 --> 01:32:44,320
so you know that brings in sort of like

2336
01:32:47,270 --> 01:32:46,480
you know the human side of it all rather

2337
01:32:50,950 --> 01:32:47,280
than just

2338
01:32:52,950 --> 01:32:50,960
um you know the the data

2339
01:32:54,310 --> 01:32:52,960
part of the story would this help

2340
01:32:57,990 --> 01:32:54,320
explain

2341
01:33:01,030 --> 01:32:58,000
why every step of the way

2342
01:33:02,070 --> 01:33:01,040
for john burroughs and colonel holt who

2343
01:33:05,189 --> 01:33:02,080
were trying to find

2344
01:33:06,870 --> 01:33:05,199
answers on this they were things were

2345
01:33:10,310 --> 01:33:06,880
buried it's secret

2346
01:33:11,270 --> 01:33:10,320
your records are are here no you can't

2347
01:33:14,070 --> 01:33:11,280
see them no

2348
01:33:14,870 --> 01:33:14,080
you don't have access to this every step

2349
01:33:18,229 --> 01:33:14,880
of the way

2350
01:33:21,669 --> 01:33:18,239
they were completely stonewalled

2351
01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:21,679
and this would help explain it goes back

2352
01:33:25,990 --> 01:33:23,760
to things like the mancarian candidate

2353
01:33:27,030 --> 01:33:26,000
or you know like the film jacob's ladder

2354
01:33:29,270 --> 01:33:27,040
or you know where these

2355
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:29,280
things these experiments were happening

2356
01:33:31,830 --> 01:33:30,960
and when you go to trying to find out

2357
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:31,840
why

2358
01:33:35,669 --> 01:33:34,320
that is one thing that is going to be

2359
01:33:38,870 --> 01:33:35,679
kept away from you

2360
01:33:39,990 --> 01:33:38,880
isn't it well yeah i mean i think the

2361
01:33:43,669 --> 01:33:40,000
big irony

2362
01:33:45,430 --> 01:33:43,679
is that you know very often um

2363
01:33:47,510 --> 01:33:45,440
things that are sort of down to earth

2364
01:33:51,350 --> 01:33:47,520
but highly controversial

2365
01:33:54,070 --> 01:33:51,360
are hidden for years you know i mean um

2366
01:33:55,110 --> 01:33:54,080
if you for example in the early 1990s

2367
01:33:57,830 --> 01:33:55,120
you know when um

2368
01:34:00,070 --> 01:33:57,840
president uh clinton you know sort of

2369
01:34:02,149 --> 01:34:00,080
opened or tried to open all the files

2370
01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:02,159
you know on radiation experiments and

2371
01:34:05,270 --> 01:34:03,280
things like that

2372
01:34:06,870 --> 01:34:05,280
you know which had been much of it had

2373
01:34:09,830 --> 01:34:06,880
been sort of hidden

2374
01:34:12,229 --> 01:34:09,840
for decades and decades you know and uh

2375
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:12,239
and that was highly controversial

2376
01:34:17,990 --> 01:34:15,360
and it involved you know regular people

2377
01:34:20,950 --> 01:34:18,000
so you know you i think you can make a

2378
01:34:24,229 --> 01:34:20,960
case sometimes that um

2379
01:34:26,470 --> 01:34:24,239
you know the a down-to-earth secret

2380
01:34:27,270 --> 01:34:26,480
rather than an extraterrestrial secret

2381
01:34:33,990 --> 01:34:27,280
um

2382
01:34:34,709 --> 01:34:34,000
essentially hidden away to to extreme

2383
01:34:37,590 --> 01:34:34,719
degrees

2384
01:34:39,430 --> 01:34:37,600
you know because it involves people that

2385
01:34:42,310 --> 01:34:39,440
that's the important thing you know

2386
01:34:43,510 --> 01:34:42,320
now what government uh performed this

2387
01:34:46,950 --> 01:34:43,520
experiment

2388
01:34:50,790 --> 01:34:46,960
was it british was it american

2389
01:34:52,310 --> 01:34:50,800
was it a joint exercise well most of the

2390
01:34:55,750 --> 01:34:52,320
data that i've got

2391
01:34:58,229 --> 01:34:55,760
so suggest it was a uk one

2392
01:34:59,350 --> 01:34:58,239
i mean for example when you look at the

2393
01:35:03,270 --> 01:34:59,360
whole porton

2394
01:35:06,550 --> 01:35:03,280
uh down angle that um lord hill norton

2395
01:35:09,910 --> 01:35:06,560
looked into you know portland down is

2396
01:35:12,149 --> 01:35:09,920
a um south west england facility

2397
01:35:13,030 --> 01:35:12,159
you know it's not in the united states

2398
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:13,040
or

2399
01:35:19,510 --> 01:35:16,880
and um

2400
01:35:19,990 --> 01:35:19,520
the late uh georgina bruni who wrote a

2401
01:35:22,950 --> 01:35:20,000
book

2402
01:35:24,550 --> 01:35:22,960
um on rendelsham also called um you

2403
01:35:28,470 --> 01:35:24,560
can't tell the people

2404
01:35:30,629 --> 01:35:28,480
um georgina also um

2405
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:30,639
found a bunch of material on the port

2406
01:35:35,590 --> 01:35:32,800
and down connections as well

2407
01:35:35,990 --> 01:35:35,600
and and again she stressed you know this

2408
01:35:39,030 --> 01:35:36,000
was

2409
01:35:42,790 --> 01:35:39,040
um brought him down he's in the uk

2410
01:35:46,070 --> 01:35:42,800
so we're looking i think at um

2411
01:35:48,870 --> 01:35:46,080
a uk based phenomena

2412
01:35:50,550 --> 01:35:48,880
um in terms of the experiments and

2413
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:50,560
another example of this

2414
01:35:53,750 --> 01:35:53,360
revolves around a guy named ralph noyes

2415
01:35:57,430 --> 01:35:53,760
now

2416
01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:57,440
ralph noyes was a long term

2417
01:36:00,870 --> 01:35:59,840
employee of the british ministry of

2418
01:36:03,510 --> 01:36:00,880
defense

2419
01:36:04,950 --> 01:36:03,520
and he wrote a book a novel i should say

2420
01:36:08,870 --> 01:36:04,960
in 1985

2421
01:36:11,830 --> 01:36:08,880
called a secret property and

2422
01:36:13,350 --> 01:36:11,840
it's sort of a thinly veiled version of

2423
01:36:16,709 --> 01:36:13,360
randalsham forest

2424
01:36:19,830 --> 01:36:16,719
for example um there's um

2425
01:36:21,990 --> 01:36:19,840
a colonel hoyt in the in the novel

2426
01:36:23,109 --> 01:36:22,000
and there's a forest where something

2427
01:36:26,310 --> 01:36:23,119
comes down

2428
01:36:27,510 --> 01:36:26,320
but the the thrust of the story is that

2429
01:36:30,550 --> 01:36:27,520
there's this sort of

2430
01:36:32,229 --> 01:36:30,560
um almost magical technology which can

2431
01:36:35,510 --> 01:36:32,239
create visions

2432
01:36:36,470 --> 01:36:35,520
uh in front of people's eyes and as i

2433
01:36:39,109 --> 01:36:36,480
said

2434
01:36:40,470 --> 01:36:39,119
ralph noyes was someone who um had a

2435
01:36:43,990 --> 01:36:40,480
long-standing

2436
01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:44,000
involvement in ufology and his story

2437
01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:47,199
does actually also touch upon

2438
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:49,840
visions and images of things that

2439
01:36:54,550 --> 01:36:51,600
weren't really there

2440
01:36:55,430 --> 01:36:54,560
so you know i think he i think ralph

2441
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:55,440
noyes

2442
01:37:02,550 --> 01:36:59,360
knew something about this and

2443
01:37:03,030 --> 01:37:02,560
chose to portray it in the form of a

2444
01:37:06,310 --> 01:37:03,040
sort of

2445
01:37:09,990 --> 01:37:06,320
a thinly veiled novel now uh

2446
01:37:13,669 --> 01:37:10,000
what do we do uh nick ultimately with

2447
01:37:15,350 --> 01:37:13,679
uh these these different conclusions and

2448
01:37:18,629 --> 01:37:15,360
what i mean by that

2449
01:37:22,470 --> 01:37:18,639
is everybody out there is going to pick

2450
01:37:26,390 --> 01:37:22,480
a side but we have a situation here

2451
01:37:28,790 --> 01:37:26,400
like uh the uh

2452
01:37:29,910 --> 01:37:28,800
just escaped me the alien autopsy

2453
01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:29,920
footage

2454
01:37:34,550 --> 01:37:32,800
right and and when we have something

2455
01:37:35,430 --> 01:37:34,560
like that and i could even go back we

2456
01:37:38,870 --> 01:37:35,440
could discuss

2457
01:37:40,390 --> 01:37:38,880
like billy meyer you know where it it

2458
01:37:43,750 --> 01:37:40,400
continues

2459
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:43,760
to this day to have its supporters

2460
01:37:48,550 --> 01:37:45,840
whatever it may be

2461
01:37:49,510 --> 01:37:48,560
but here in this case how do we move

2462
01:37:53,270 --> 01:37:49,520
forward

2463
01:37:56,870 --> 01:37:53,280
right where you're not going to convince

2464
01:38:00,149 --> 01:37:56,880
anybody no no you're right

2465
01:38:03,669 --> 01:38:00,159
i mean the only way to convince anyone

2466
01:38:07,030 --> 01:38:03,679
is hard proof and that by that

2467
01:38:09,590 --> 01:38:07,040
would be some sort of technology

2468
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:09,600
or official documents that tell the

2469
01:38:15,030 --> 01:38:11,840
whole story and that you know that

2470
01:38:17,030 --> 01:38:15,040
come tumbling out one day i mean that's

2471
01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:17,040
i think and i would hope you know

2472
01:38:20,790 --> 01:38:18,880
whatever the answer is aliens and

2473
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:20,800
experiments something else

2474
01:38:25,270 --> 01:38:23,360
um i would hope that would put it to

2475
01:38:27,189 --> 01:38:25,280
rest then but even then i'm not sure you

2476
01:38:29,669 --> 01:38:27,199
know some people might say well

2477
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:29,679
how do we know the documents of the real

2478
01:38:35,030 --> 01:38:31,360
deal you know

2479
01:38:38,950 --> 01:38:35,040
we could be going around in circles um

2480
01:38:42,070 --> 01:38:38,960
so unless we get some kind of proof

2481
01:38:43,669 --> 01:38:42,080
which cannot be denied for what it is

2482
01:38:45,830 --> 01:38:43,679
and i don't know what that might be but

2483
01:38:47,510 --> 01:38:45,840
you know and it applies to both sides as

2484
01:38:50,390 --> 01:38:47,520
well unless

2485
01:38:51,750 --> 01:38:50,400
we get something like that i would

2486
01:38:54,870 --> 01:38:51,760
predict that

2487
01:38:57,669 --> 01:38:54,880
you know um people will still be having

2488
01:39:00,070 --> 01:38:57,679
shows like this 40 years from now

2489
01:39:01,030 --> 01:39:00,080
still talking about randallstrom in the

2490
01:39:03,430 --> 01:39:01,040
same way

2491
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:03,440
we're still talking about roswell which

2492
01:39:08,709 --> 01:39:04,480
was now what

2493
01:39:11,669 --> 01:39:08,719
73 years ago so i'm pretty confident

2494
01:39:12,790 --> 01:39:11,679
that if we don't get proof will still be

2495
01:39:16,629 --> 01:39:12,800
debating

2496
01:39:19,910 --> 01:39:16,639
rendelsham and you'll have like um

2497
01:39:22,790 --> 01:39:19,920
a 2040 or 2050 equivalent of me

2498
01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:22,800
and a 2040 or 2050 equivalent of nick

2499
01:39:26,550 --> 01:39:23,760
pope or whatever

2500
01:39:28,709 --> 01:39:26,560
talking about this case which when it's

2501
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:28,719
coming up to its hundredth anniversary

2502
01:39:33,030 --> 01:39:29,760
you know

2503
01:39:35,189 --> 01:39:33,040
um that's that that might sound

2504
01:39:37,430 --> 01:39:35,199
you know depressive you know kind of

2505
01:39:39,510 --> 01:39:37,440
that that we might just still be keep

2506
01:39:40,310 --> 01:39:39,520
talking about rendlesham 40 years from

2507
01:39:44,229 --> 01:39:40,320
now

2508
01:39:47,990 --> 01:39:44,239
still looking

2509
01:39:49,910 --> 01:39:48,000
cases i mean cash landrum

2510
01:39:52,149 --> 01:39:49,920
that's still debated you know on the

2511
01:39:55,669 --> 01:39:52,159
subject of tv shows

2512
01:39:58,229 --> 01:39:55,679
that's 40 years ago you know and um

2513
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:58,239
well i agree with you and but there's

2514
01:40:04,310 --> 01:39:58,960
another

2515
01:40:09,109 --> 01:40:04,320
think anybody listening to us right now

2516
01:40:12,470 --> 01:40:09,119
uh needs to uh clear the way which is

2517
01:40:14,950 --> 01:40:12,480
we have the hallucination the misting of

2518
01:40:15,910 --> 01:40:14,960
mild you know drugs in into the forest

2519
01:40:19,750 --> 01:40:15,920
we have that

2520
01:40:23,910 --> 01:40:19,760
we have the uh uh

2521
01:40:25,669 --> 01:40:23,920
the the 3d production uh projections

2522
01:40:27,510 --> 01:40:25,679
that were happening not only inside of

2523
01:40:29,750 --> 01:40:27,520
the force but certainly above the force

2524
01:40:33,030 --> 01:40:29,760
because the sightings were

2525
01:40:34,310 --> 01:40:33,040
uh above the bases as well as inside of

2526
01:40:37,189 --> 01:40:34,320
the force and then we have

2527
01:40:37,990 --> 01:40:37,199
the second farmer's field where a craft

2528
01:40:40,310 --> 01:40:38,000
was seen

2529
01:40:41,590 --> 01:40:40,320
on the ground and then we have the

2530
01:40:44,229 --> 01:40:41,600
physical traces

2531
01:40:45,430 --> 01:40:44,239
inside of the forest the depressions in

2532
01:40:48,310 --> 01:40:45,440
the ground

2533
01:40:48,709 --> 01:40:48,320
um which would indicate uh physical

2534
01:40:51,510 --> 01:40:48,719
trace

2535
01:40:52,950 --> 01:40:51,520
evidence which they did go and analyze

2536
01:40:56,229 --> 01:40:52,960
halt in the crew

2537
01:40:59,270 --> 01:40:56,239
so pretty elaborate uh

2538
01:41:00,709 --> 01:40:59,280
to to pull off without anybody knowing

2539
01:41:03,910 --> 01:41:00,719
about this

2540
01:41:05,510 --> 01:41:03,920
how does that get done

2541
01:41:07,270 --> 01:41:05,520
you're right i mean that's an important

2542
01:41:08,550 --> 01:41:07,280
thing to note is that we're talking

2543
01:41:11,590 --> 01:41:08,560
about something

2544
01:41:13,910 --> 01:41:11,600
fairly sophisticated and

2545
01:41:15,430 --> 01:41:13,920
i i agree with you you know to try and

2546
01:41:18,070 --> 01:41:15,440
pull something off

2547
01:41:18,870 --> 01:41:18,080
would not be you know an easy thing to

2548
01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:18,880
do

2549
01:41:22,790 --> 01:41:22,080
but the reason why i sort of focused on

2550
01:41:27,510 --> 01:41:22,800
this

2551
01:41:30,629 --> 01:41:27,520
um angle for the book was simply because

2552
01:41:33,750 --> 01:41:30,639
it keeps pro cropping up here and there

2553
01:41:37,189 --> 01:41:33,760
in um various books and various

2554
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:37,199
accounts um you know for example

2555
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:40,800
um you know when the the the angle

2556
01:41:47,430 --> 01:41:44,400
for example um with low-grade

2557
01:41:49,189 --> 01:41:47,440
um hallucinogens and that word low-grade

2558
01:41:51,590 --> 01:41:49,199
or words i should say low-grade

2559
01:41:52,070 --> 01:41:51,600
hallucinogens was actually made by the

2560
01:41:55,270 --> 01:41:52,080
late

2561
01:41:57,030 --> 01:41:55,280
georgina bruni and it was one of the

2562
01:42:00,550 --> 01:41:57,040
things that really interested

2563
01:42:04,229 --> 01:42:00,560
uh lord hill norton she actually

2564
01:42:06,550 --> 01:42:04,239
got more information from several royal

2565
01:42:08,070 --> 01:42:06,560
air force police officers whose names i

2566
01:42:12,390 --> 01:42:08,080
actually know now

2567
01:42:14,870 --> 01:42:12,400
and the the situation is that yes we are

2568
01:42:18,149 --> 01:42:14,880
talking about something that would be

2569
01:42:20,790 --> 01:42:18,159
very very difficult to pull off

2570
01:42:22,149 --> 01:42:20,800
but that does but the fact that there

2571
01:42:25,109 --> 01:42:22,159
are this isn't just

2572
01:42:26,629 --> 01:42:25,119
one story you know coming from me or

2573
01:42:28,709 --> 01:42:26,639
from one source

2574
01:42:31,350 --> 01:42:28,719
you know in the book i there's multiple

2575
01:42:34,550 --> 01:42:31,360
sources for the port and down story

2576
01:42:36,790 --> 01:42:34,560
um there were rumors that on the night

2577
01:42:39,590 --> 01:42:36,800
of the first night there was going to be

2578
01:42:42,390 --> 01:42:39,600
uh back evacuations of several

2579
01:42:43,830 --> 01:42:42,400
local prisons i've got like five or six

2580
01:42:47,109 --> 01:42:43,840
different sources

2581
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:47,119
for that aspect of the story so what

2582
01:42:50,590 --> 01:42:49,040
despite the fact that we are talking

2583
01:42:54,149 --> 01:42:50,600
about something

2584
01:42:56,709 --> 01:42:54,159
incredibly intricate to do

2585
01:42:59,030 --> 01:42:56,719
the fact is that there are multiple

2586
01:43:02,229 --> 01:42:59,040
sources and data

2587
01:43:06,070 --> 01:43:02,239
for the uh the idea of

2588
01:43:08,070 --> 01:43:06,080
um a secret experiment and um

2589
01:43:09,990 --> 01:43:08,080
you know for and it's not just in the uk

2590
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:10,000
you know as i said with ray boucher

2591
01:43:14,149 --> 01:43:12,480
an active priest you know he's gone on

2592
01:43:17,189 --> 01:43:14,159
the record as saying

2593
01:43:18,950 --> 01:43:17,199
that you know he met the guys and they

2594
01:43:21,109 --> 01:43:18,960
they refused to give him the project

2595
01:43:23,270 --> 01:43:21,119
name but um

2596
01:43:24,550 --> 01:43:23,280
but they shared as much as information

2597
01:43:27,990 --> 01:43:24,560
as they could

2598
01:43:31,830 --> 01:43:28,000
so you know i think the story itself

2599
01:43:33,830 --> 01:43:31,840
i mean is it's probably you know

2600
01:43:35,270 --> 01:43:33,840
somebody said to me how much of the

2601
01:43:42,470 --> 01:43:35,280
story

2602
01:43:44,229 --> 01:43:42,480
i think it's probably a small amount and

2603
01:43:46,470 --> 01:43:44,239
i think you could apply that

2604
01:43:48,550 --> 01:43:46,480
you know to what was known behind closed

2605
01:43:51,430 --> 01:43:48,560
doors if it was a ufo event

2606
01:43:52,550 --> 01:43:51,440
you know we'd we're kind of limited to

2607
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:52,560
what we know

2608
01:43:56,629 --> 01:43:56,159
and we're forced to sort of speculate

2609
01:44:01,030 --> 01:43:56,639
and

2610
01:44:03,830 --> 01:44:01,040
one of the worst things we can do but

2611
01:44:05,109 --> 01:44:03,840
to a degree you know we're forced to and

2612
01:44:07,109 --> 01:44:05,119
i have to admit

2613
01:44:08,149 --> 01:44:07,119
i have to speculate you know when it

2614
01:44:10,070 --> 01:44:08,159
comes to

2615
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:10,080
certain aspects of the experiment you

2616
01:44:16,070 --> 01:44:12,960
know i'm not going to shy away and say

2617
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:16,080
everything ties together and you know

2618
01:44:20,550 --> 01:44:17,920
it's totally 100

2619
01:44:21,750 --> 01:44:20,560
smooth you know i'm not going to play it

2620
01:44:24,070 --> 01:44:21,760
up like that

2621
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:24,080
you know there are issues there's no

2622
01:44:28,070 --> 01:44:25,119
doubt about that

2623
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:28,080
and um you know i'm not going to lie

2624
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:29,520
about that because

2625
01:44:32,790 --> 01:44:31,760
because it would be wrong you know and

2626
01:44:36,390 --> 01:44:32,800
as i said

2627
01:44:37,830 --> 01:44:36,400
you know at the beginning um in relation

2628
01:44:39,669 --> 01:44:37,840
you said you know you said what do you

2629
01:44:42,790 --> 01:44:39,679
think this book's gonna sell

2630
01:44:45,030 --> 01:44:42,800
and and as i said no because

2631
01:44:45,910 --> 01:44:45,040
it's not what people in ufology want to

2632
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:45,920
hear

2633
01:44:48,950 --> 01:44:48,000
and um you know i'm sure there are

2634
01:44:51,750 --> 01:44:48,960
people

2635
01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:51,760
um in the publishing world would sort of

2636
01:44:55,990 --> 01:44:52,480
like

2637
01:44:59,030 --> 01:44:56,000
would be amazed that an author would say

2638
01:45:02,310 --> 01:44:59,040
their book isn't likely to sell

2639
01:45:04,870 --> 01:45:02,320
you know what am i supposed to do

2640
01:45:06,550 --> 01:45:04,880
i don't think it'll sell well because

2641
01:45:07,830 --> 01:45:06,560
it's not what most people in you

2642
01:45:10,870 --> 01:45:07,840
followed you want to hear

2643
01:45:14,950 --> 01:45:10,880
and i'm not going to deny that or

2644
01:45:17,189 --> 01:45:14,960
or try and you know sort of um

2645
01:45:18,390 --> 01:45:17,199
make it sound even better than than

2646
01:45:22,229 --> 01:45:18,400
whatever you know

2647
01:45:24,229 --> 01:45:22,239
i i people willing in ufology a lot of

2648
01:45:25,030 --> 01:45:24,239
people in ufology will take the same

2649
01:45:28,149 --> 01:45:25,040
approach

2650
01:45:29,990 --> 01:45:28,159
that they've taken to say for example

2651
01:45:32,709 --> 01:45:30,000
somebody's wrote a book on roswell that

2652
01:45:33,590 --> 01:45:32,719
it was a mogul balloon or crash test

2653
01:45:35,669 --> 01:45:33,600
dummies

2654
01:45:36,870 --> 01:45:35,679
most people in ufology will not buy that

2655
01:45:39,189 --> 01:45:36,880
book and

2656
01:45:40,390 --> 01:45:39,199
i think with mine they might find it

2657
01:45:44,550 --> 01:45:40,400
interesting they might

2658
01:45:47,350 --> 01:45:44,560
be frustrated by it but a bestseller

2659
01:45:48,390 --> 01:45:47,360
no somebody just posted this quote from

2660
01:45:52,229 --> 01:45:48,400
frank zappa

2661
01:45:54,820 --> 01:45:52,239
it says a mind is like a parachute

2662
01:45:57,430 --> 01:45:54,830
it doesn't work if it's not open

2663
01:45:59,350 --> 01:45:57,440
[Laughter]

2664
01:46:00,950 --> 01:45:59,360
oh well played let's take our break

2665
01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:00,960
right here our guest tonight

2666
01:46:05,590 --> 01:46:03,520
nick redfern his new book is called the

2667
01:46:07,510 --> 01:46:05,600
randall shim forest ufo conspiracy a

2668
01:46:10,149 --> 01:46:07,520
close encounter exposed

2669
01:46:11,510 --> 01:46:10,159
as a top secret government experiment

2670
01:46:13,270 --> 01:46:11,520
i'm your host jimmy church

2671
01:46:27,430 --> 01:46:13,280
more with nick when we come back after

2672
01:46:29,030 --> 01:46:27,440
this short break stay with us

2673
01:46:30,390 --> 01:46:29,040
welcome back paid to black i'm nervous

2674
01:46:32,310 --> 01:46:30,400
to be church i guess tonight nick

2675
01:46:34,709 --> 01:46:32,320
redfearn

2676
01:46:37,669 --> 01:46:34,719
talking about his new book and it is

2677
01:46:40,229 --> 01:46:37,679
definitely rippling the waters out there

2678
01:46:42,629 --> 01:46:40,239
it's called the rental shim forest ufo

2679
01:46:45,590 --> 01:46:42,639
conspiracy a close encounter exposed

2680
01:46:46,229 --> 01:46:45,600
as a top secret government experiment

2681
01:46:51,669 --> 01:46:46,239
now

2682
01:46:54,870 --> 01:46:51,679
certain way

2683
01:46:58,149 --> 01:46:54,880
but let's i want you to just

2684
01:47:01,189 --> 01:46:58,159
just do your nick redford thing and and

2685
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:01,199
and go outside of the box a little bit

2686
01:47:08,950 --> 01:47:04,800
because there is a challenge

2687
01:47:11,270 --> 01:47:08,960
of of overcoming

2688
01:47:13,109 --> 01:47:11,280
the evidence that has already been out

2689
01:47:15,750 --> 01:47:13,119
there and the eyewitness testimony

2690
01:47:16,790 --> 01:47:15,760
and the physical stuff and all of that

2691
01:47:20,470 --> 01:47:16,800
stuff is out there

2692
01:47:23,669 --> 01:47:20,480
there's a challenge to writing

2693
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:23,679
uh something that absolutely

2694
01:47:27,910 --> 01:47:26,400
is going to come back at you like

2695
01:47:31,510 --> 01:47:27,920
sentence for sentence

2696
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:31,520
right it's there is it's like

2697
01:47:35,990 --> 01:47:34,719
easy it's fish in a barrel for a lot of

2698
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:36,000
these ufo researchers

2699
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:37,440
because of the things that have been out

2700
01:47:41,910 --> 01:47:39,920
there about this case for years

2701
01:47:42,950 --> 01:47:41,920
you're going to be challenged every step

2702
01:47:46,310 --> 01:47:42,960
of the way

2703
01:47:48,229 --> 01:47:46,320
aren't you well yeah but i mean

2704
01:47:49,990 --> 01:47:48,239
you know i mean i anticipated that when

2705
01:47:53,270 --> 01:47:50,000
i wrote the book i mean you you can't

2706
01:47:55,189 --> 01:47:53,280
write a book on rendelsham and say it

2707
01:47:58,470 --> 01:47:55,199
was a secret experiment and not

2708
01:48:02,070 --> 01:47:58,480
expect to get not just feedback

2709
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:02,080
but also you know sort of like um

2710
01:48:06,070 --> 01:48:04,800
the military coming over the hill coming

2711
01:48:09,189 --> 01:48:06,080
after you you know

2712
01:48:11,030 --> 01:48:09,199
kind of situation um you know

2713
01:48:12,709 --> 01:48:11,040
it's such a it's a controversial

2714
01:48:15,830 --> 01:48:12,719
fascinating story

2715
01:48:19,669 --> 01:48:15,840
to begin with but to insert

2716
01:48:23,590 --> 01:48:19,679
an experiment aspect to this yeah i mean

2717
01:48:26,149 --> 01:48:23,600
just about every aspect i would imagine

2718
01:48:28,629 --> 01:48:26,159
well not quite every aspect but a

2719
01:48:30,229 --> 01:48:28,639
significant amount of the story

2720
01:48:31,830 --> 01:48:30,239
i think people you know somebody's gonna

2721
01:48:32,550 --> 01:48:31,840
say well what about this you know what

2722
01:48:34,790 --> 01:48:32,560
about that

2723
01:48:36,070 --> 01:48:34,800
why did you say it was this and somebody

2724
01:48:38,790 --> 01:48:36,080
else said it in that

2725
01:48:40,390 --> 01:48:38,800
book you know i mean you cannot write a

2726
01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:40,400
book like that

2727
01:48:44,950 --> 01:48:43,360
which is so so controversial and not

2728
01:48:48,470 --> 01:48:44,960
expect to have to

2729
01:48:50,709 --> 01:48:48,480
um to respond you know i know i mean

2730
01:48:52,229 --> 01:48:50,719
on facebook in the last three or four

2731
01:48:55,910 --> 01:48:52,239
days you know i've spent

2732
01:48:56,310 --> 01:48:55,920
nothing but answer you know questions or

2733
01:49:00,229 --> 01:48:56,320
just

2734
01:49:03,030 --> 01:49:00,239
debating back and forth you know and

2735
01:49:03,430 --> 01:49:03,040
and that's a good thing you know and um

2736
01:49:06,550 --> 01:49:03,440
i

2737
01:49:08,470 --> 01:49:06,560
those

2738
01:49:10,070 --> 01:49:08,480
all that debating and commentary and

2739
01:49:11,910 --> 01:49:10,080
everything else

2740
01:49:14,550 --> 01:49:11,920
still never gets answers you know that

2741
01:49:17,430 --> 01:49:14,560
that's that's the way ufology works

2742
01:49:18,629 --> 01:49:17,440
you can debate things you can you know

2743
01:49:21,030 --> 01:49:18,639
have an entire comp

2744
01:49:23,750 --> 01:49:21,040
you know a weekend conference with five

2745
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:23,760
or six people talking about rendlesham

2746
01:49:28,070 --> 01:49:26,800
you know and um and you could have

2747
01:49:30,310 --> 01:49:28,080
somebody talk about the ufo

2748
01:49:31,589 --> 01:49:30,320
angle somebody else talking about just a

2749
01:49:33,109 --> 01:49:31,599
hoax you know

2750
01:49:34,950 --> 01:49:33,119
maybe talking about the experiment at

2751
01:49:36,070 --> 01:49:34,960
the end of that weekend we won't have

2752
01:49:37,510 --> 01:49:36,080
got any further

2753
01:49:39,350 --> 01:49:37,520
because that's you fault that's what

2754
01:49:42,870 --> 01:49:39,360
ufology does

2755
01:49:45,990 --> 01:49:42,880
it does it does when when it started

2756
01:49:48,550 --> 01:49:46,000
uh you know the comments started

2757
01:49:49,270 --> 01:49:48,560
uh over on facebook literally nick i'm

2758
01:49:51,669 --> 01:49:49,280
not kidding

2759
01:49:53,669 --> 01:49:51,679
i went okay i can't read this i know

2760
01:49:56,709 --> 01:49:53,679
this is gonna start going in

2761
01:49:58,790 --> 01:49:56,719
all kinds of directions here and i i

2762
01:50:02,149 --> 01:49:58,800
didn't want to do it because of the show

2763
01:50:05,030 --> 01:50:02,159
first off but i also know

2764
01:50:07,350 --> 01:50:05,040
it's a road that doesn't have an end

2765
01:50:10,390 --> 01:50:07,360
there's no conclusion

2766
01:50:13,990 --> 01:50:10,400
that's it it's it's uh

2767
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:14,000
chasing your own tails and it's uh

2768
01:50:18,550 --> 01:50:16,159
it's definitely gonna continue with this

2769
01:50:21,589 --> 01:50:18,560
but there's there's another twist

2770
01:50:24,550 --> 01:50:21,599
and and here it is last week

2771
01:50:26,390 --> 01:50:24,560
uh the united states navy as everybody

2772
01:50:29,189 --> 01:50:26,400
knows decided to

2773
01:50:31,830 --> 01:50:29,199
officially i'm using air quotes

2774
01:50:33,750 --> 01:50:31,840
officially release those uh three videos

2775
01:50:37,109 --> 01:50:33,760
the gimbal the flear and uh

2776
01:50:38,310 --> 01:50:37,119
the go fast there has been another

2777
01:50:41,430 --> 01:50:38,320
suggestion

2778
01:50:43,030 --> 01:50:41,440
to this which i think is a very strong

2779
01:50:47,030 --> 01:50:43,040
consideration

2780
01:50:48,950 --> 01:50:47,040
is that what went on on uh

2781
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:48,960
the west coast in san diego then of

2782
01:50:51,990 --> 01:50:50,159
course over

2783
01:50:53,990 --> 01:50:52,000
on the east coast off of florida with

2784
01:50:56,870 --> 01:50:54,000
those two carrier groups

2785
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:56,880
uh quite honestly could have been the

2786
01:51:01,589 --> 01:50:58,400
testing of

2787
01:51:04,870 --> 01:51:01,599
some very top secret technology

2788
01:51:06,070 --> 01:51:04,880
and the reaction not only with radar

2789
01:51:08,070 --> 01:51:06,080
imaging but what

2790
01:51:09,109 --> 01:51:08,080
what the pilots would witness and how

2791
01:51:12,229 --> 01:51:09,119
everybody

2792
01:51:15,430 --> 01:51:12,239
would respond to it and that that

2793
01:51:17,430 --> 01:51:15,440
that ruffled a lot of feathers but i can

2794
01:51:18,070 --> 01:51:17,440
sit back and go well it could be aliens

2795
01:51:19,510 --> 01:51:18,080
or e.t

2796
01:51:21,109 --> 01:51:19,520
and what's in the videos is certainly

2797
01:51:24,629 --> 01:51:21,119
interesting but

2798
01:51:27,350 --> 01:51:24,639
could it just be something else

2799
01:51:29,270 --> 01:51:27,360
and that is what we're suggesting here

2800
01:51:29,910 --> 01:51:29,280
you're suggesting with the rental shim

2801
01:51:32,629 --> 01:51:29,920
case

2802
01:51:35,830 --> 01:51:32,639
but it's not that far outside of the

2803
01:51:38,310 --> 01:51:35,840
realm of possibility is it

2804
01:51:39,830 --> 01:51:38,320
no i don't i don't believe it is if if i

2805
01:51:40,550 --> 01:51:39,840
did you know i wouldn't have written the

2806
01:51:42,629 --> 01:51:40,560
book

2807
01:51:44,149 --> 01:51:42,639
in the first place and i certainly

2808
01:51:45,669 --> 01:51:44,159
wouldn't have you know written the book

2809
01:51:46,709 --> 01:51:45,679
if there was just like one or two

2810
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:46,719
sources

2811
01:51:53,109 --> 01:51:49,760
that were talking about this um

2812
01:51:54,950 --> 01:51:53,119
and and so for that reason

2813
01:51:57,109 --> 01:51:54,960
all those reasons i should say more than

2814
01:51:59,030 --> 01:51:57,119
anything else you know is what

2815
01:52:00,470 --> 01:51:59,040
prompted me to do this but but you're

2816
01:52:01,270 --> 01:52:00,480
right yeah you know when you talked

2817
01:52:03,990 --> 01:52:01,280
about

2818
01:52:05,750 --> 01:52:04,000
you know the navy i mean could we talk

2819
01:52:07,430 --> 01:52:05,760
about a real ufo yes

2820
01:52:09,189 --> 01:52:07,440
could we be talking about something

2821
01:52:09,830 --> 01:52:09,199
that's sort of something of ours well

2822
01:52:11,830 --> 01:52:09,840
yes

2823
01:52:14,229 --> 01:52:11,840
and there's just people around the loop

2824
01:52:17,109 --> 01:52:14,239
don't know and they think it's a ufo

2825
01:52:18,070 --> 01:52:17,119
um but but yeah you're right you know

2826
01:52:21,350 --> 01:52:18,080
when you said that

2827
01:52:24,070 --> 01:52:21,360
um we can debate this forever and a day

2828
01:52:25,910 --> 01:52:24,080
and he'll create a lot of entertainment

2829
01:52:30,070 --> 01:52:25,920
for the people who read the comments

2830
01:52:32,950 --> 01:52:30,080
back and forth but at the end of the day

2831
01:52:34,390 --> 01:52:32,960
it's not going to solve it because if if

2832
01:52:35,830 --> 01:52:34,400
it was solved

2833
01:52:37,589 --> 01:52:35,840
you know there wouldn't be any more

2834
01:52:38,950 --> 01:52:37,599
books on rendlesham me and you wouldn't

2835
01:52:43,990 --> 01:52:38,960
be having this chat now

2836
01:52:47,510 --> 01:52:44,000
you know that's right um so i'm not sure

2837
01:52:49,910 --> 01:52:47,520
how we take it further you know um

2838
01:52:52,149 --> 01:52:49,920
and by that i mean you know we can

2839
01:52:54,070 --> 01:52:52,159
collect more data and more information

2840
01:52:57,830 --> 01:52:54,080
and more testimony

2841
01:52:58,950 --> 01:52:57,840
but whichever answer is that is the true

2842
01:53:02,310 --> 01:52:58,960
answer

2843
01:53:05,589 --> 01:53:02,320
we still have to find the evidence

2844
01:53:11,030 --> 01:53:05,599
to really nail it down and

2845
01:53:14,149 --> 01:53:13,189
did you notice and i'm sure that you

2846
01:53:17,350 --> 01:53:14,159
followed it uh

2847
01:53:18,629 --> 01:53:17,360
to to a certain degree but when it came

2848
01:53:22,070 --> 01:53:18,639
to

2849
01:53:25,510 --> 01:53:22,080
uh the nimitz and the roosevelt and

2850
01:53:26,550 --> 01:53:25,520
the suggestion that that was put out

2851
01:53:29,669 --> 01:53:26,560
there about it

2852
01:53:31,109 --> 01:53:29,679
uh uh you know being our aircraft our

2853
01:53:33,189 --> 01:53:31,119
secret programs

2854
01:53:35,109 --> 01:53:33,199
and it was just being tested off the

2855
01:53:37,109 --> 01:53:35,119
waters the navy was there

2856
01:53:38,310 --> 01:53:37,119
and we were we would be able to collect

2857
01:53:41,430 --> 01:53:38,320
this data

2858
01:53:42,149 --> 01:53:41,440
the absolute flaming of the ufo

2859
01:53:43,910 --> 01:53:42,159
community

2860
01:53:45,510 --> 01:53:43,920
and how everybody just came to the

2861
01:53:47,910 --> 01:53:45,520
defense of

2862
01:53:49,270 --> 01:53:47,920
absolutely not it has to be aliens it

2863
01:53:51,990 --> 01:53:49,280
can't be anything else

2864
01:53:54,229 --> 01:53:52,000
why would our government do this to us

2865
01:53:55,430 --> 01:53:54,239
there's plenty of evidence of testing on

2866
01:53:58,470 --> 01:53:55,440
our soldiers

2867
01:54:01,750 --> 01:53:58,480
uh going back to the beginning of time

2868
01:54:04,950 --> 01:54:03,189
well i think you know when you said

2869
01:54:06,629 --> 01:54:04,960
about you know everything sort of

2870
01:54:08,629 --> 01:54:06,639
people getting fired up you know it's

2871
01:54:11,350 --> 01:54:08,639
got to be this theory and it can't be

2872
01:54:11,990 --> 01:54:11,360
this or whatever i mean that that does

2873
01:54:13,990 --> 01:54:12,000
kind of

2874
01:54:16,149 --> 01:54:14,000
you know again tie in with the emotional

2875
01:54:19,510 --> 01:54:16,159
side now i mean for people who've

2876
01:54:20,390 --> 01:54:19,520
been in a you know profound ufo events

2877
01:54:22,470 --> 01:54:20,400
you know

2878
01:54:23,669 --> 01:54:22,480
as i said i do believe there's a genuine

2879
01:54:26,229 --> 01:54:23,679
ufo phenomenon

2880
01:54:27,669 --> 01:54:26,239
and for people who've had you know

2881
01:54:30,870 --> 01:54:27,679
really close profound

2882
01:54:31,910 --> 01:54:30,880
encounters you know i can understand why

2883
01:54:34,390 --> 01:54:31,920
they are so

2884
01:54:35,750 --> 01:54:34,400
emotional about you know their

2885
01:54:38,310 --> 01:54:35,760
experience

2886
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:38,320
because they know you know what happened

2887
01:54:42,629 --> 01:54:39,360
to them

2888
01:54:45,350 --> 01:54:42,639
and they want answers um

2889
01:54:46,149 --> 01:54:45,360
but sometimes you know the emotional

2890
01:54:49,350 --> 01:54:46,159
side of it

2891
01:54:51,910 --> 01:54:49,360
can cause problems um you know when

2892
01:54:54,709 --> 01:54:51,920
we're trying to figure something out

2893
01:54:55,750 --> 01:54:54,719
you know um yeah you're right and i'll

2894
01:54:58,870 --> 01:54:55,760
i'll tell you why

2895
01:55:00,149 --> 01:54:58,880
just uh and the the parallels between

2896
01:55:03,189 --> 01:55:00,159
randall shim

2897
01:55:05,669 --> 01:55:03,199
and the nimitz uh encounters

2898
01:55:06,550 --> 01:55:05,679
are are actually pretty profound if you

2899
01:55:09,910 --> 01:55:06,560
look at it

2900
01:55:13,270 --> 01:55:09,920
because we have the

2901
01:55:13,990 --> 01:55:13,280
uh the evidence right the evidence is is

2902
01:55:17,109 --> 01:55:14,000
there

2903
01:55:19,270 --> 01:55:17,119
limited or not in both cases we even

2904
01:55:20,790 --> 01:55:19,280
have videos from nimitz we have audio

2905
01:55:23,350 --> 01:55:20,800
recordings from randall shim

2906
01:55:25,109 --> 01:55:23,360
right so we have that kind of stuff and

2907
01:55:26,870 --> 01:55:25,119
then we have

2908
01:55:29,669 --> 01:55:26,880
you can draw your own conclusions from

2909
01:55:30,550 --> 01:55:29,679
that but then we have the eyewitness

2910
01:55:32,149 --> 01:55:30,560
testimony

2911
01:55:34,229 --> 01:55:32,159
and with the uh with the nimitz

2912
01:55:36,310 --> 01:55:34,239
encounters and dave fraver and and

2913
01:55:39,669 --> 01:55:36,320
everybody from the princeton and

2914
01:55:42,950 --> 01:55:39,679
and the list of names of uh

2915
01:55:44,390 --> 01:55:42,960
these enlisted uh uh uh servicemen that

2916
01:55:47,510 --> 01:55:44,400
and men and women that have come

2917
01:55:49,270 --> 01:55:47,520
forward their testimony is compelling

2918
01:55:50,629 --> 01:55:49,280
and we have to take that into account

2919
01:55:54,149 --> 01:55:50,639
and it's the same

2920
01:55:56,950 --> 01:55:54,159
thing with randall shim the testimony

2921
01:55:57,270 --> 01:55:56,960
from those eyewitnesses is as compelling

2922
01:56:00,390 --> 01:55:57,280
as

2923
01:56:02,870 --> 01:56:00,400
it gets it doesn't mean it

2924
01:56:03,430 --> 01:56:02,880
is something that we can identify as

2925
01:56:06,550 --> 01:56:03,440
alien

2926
01:56:08,390 --> 01:56:06,560
or et in either case but it's something

2927
01:56:08,870 --> 01:56:08,400
that we have to take into consideration

2928
01:56:11,270 --> 01:56:08,880
because

2929
01:56:12,070 --> 01:56:11,280
everybody saw something and i think that

2930
01:56:14,950 --> 01:56:12,080
we all

2931
01:56:15,990 --> 01:56:14,960
will admit that something did occur in

2932
01:56:19,350 --> 01:56:16,000
both cases

2933
01:56:21,189 --> 01:56:19,360
we just don't know what it was

2934
01:56:22,709 --> 01:56:21,199
yeah you're right and that that's really

2935
01:56:25,350 --> 01:56:22,719
sort of my

2936
01:56:27,189 --> 01:56:25,360
approach uh or my sort of conclusion or

2937
01:56:29,830 --> 01:56:27,199
tentative conclusion

2938
01:56:31,270 --> 01:56:29,840
is that i mean like i mentioned sort of

2939
01:56:35,189 --> 01:56:31,280
early in the show

2940
01:56:38,390 --> 01:56:35,199
um but in my book you know i i point out

2941
01:56:41,830 --> 01:56:38,400
in my view that jim peniston and

2942
01:56:43,510 --> 01:56:41,840
john boras are two of them the most

2943
01:56:46,950 --> 01:56:43,520
important people

2944
01:56:49,990 --> 01:56:46,960
in the entire story you know

2945
01:56:52,709 --> 01:56:50,000
and because they were there i wasn't

2946
01:56:53,430 --> 01:56:52,719
you know and but also because of who

2947
01:56:55,510 --> 01:56:53,440
they were

2948
01:56:56,629 --> 01:56:55,520
and still are you know in terms of their

2949
01:57:00,629 --> 01:56:56,639
standing

2950
01:57:03,350 --> 01:57:00,639
um and so when you when you kind of

2951
01:57:04,390 --> 01:57:03,360
look at it like that you know yeah

2952
01:57:10,709 --> 01:57:04,400
you've got

2953
01:57:11,830 --> 01:57:10,719
statements you know and but then on the

2954
01:57:14,310 --> 01:57:11,840
other side

2955
01:57:15,109 --> 01:57:14,320
you've got the angle of well we're the

2956
01:57:18,550 --> 01:57:15,119
guys

2957
01:57:19,510 --> 01:57:18,560
best with you know and and this is where

2958
01:57:22,390 --> 01:57:19,520
it gets

2959
01:57:23,350 --> 01:57:22,400
you know sort of confusing because you

2960
01:57:25,589 --> 01:57:23,360
know somebody

2961
01:57:27,109 --> 01:57:25,599
said to me the other day something like

2962
01:57:29,030 --> 01:57:27,119
you know why are you

2963
01:57:30,629 --> 01:57:29,040
why are you criticizing the guys well

2964
01:57:32,550 --> 01:57:30,639
i've never criticized

2965
01:57:34,709 --> 01:57:32,560
any of the military personnel here at

2966
01:57:36,950 --> 01:57:34,719
randall jim forest because

2967
01:57:39,189 --> 01:57:36,960
regardle if it was an alien event that's

2968
01:57:41,669 --> 01:57:39,199
what they saw if there was an experiment

2969
01:57:43,270 --> 01:57:41,679
involving holograms well you know they

2970
01:57:46,390 --> 01:57:43,280
still saw something

2971
01:57:48,870 --> 01:57:46,400
um and as i said

2972
01:57:50,629 --> 01:57:48,880
you know there's no there's no being

2973
01:57:53,430 --> 01:57:50,639
critical on my part

2974
01:57:54,550 --> 01:57:53,440
i'm at it from the perspective of what

2975
01:57:57,669 --> 01:57:54,560
did they see

2976
01:58:01,750 --> 01:57:57,679
under what specific circumstances so

2977
01:58:02,870 --> 01:58:01,760
um you know it's we're in a situation

2978
01:58:06,629 --> 01:58:02,880
where

2979
01:58:10,070 --> 01:58:06,639
it you know

2980
01:58:13,350 --> 01:58:10,080
um and i'm not sure we'll ever know

2981
01:58:15,189 --> 01:58:13,360
yeah yeah let me uh let's uh

2982
01:58:17,430 --> 01:58:15,199
let let's address the elephant in the

2983
01:58:20,790 --> 01:58:17,440
room and the elephant in the room

2984
01:58:23,109 --> 01:58:20,800
for me with any of this

2985
01:58:25,109 --> 01:58:23,119
because i've just gone over this and

2986
01:58:28,550 --> 01:58:25,119
over this in my mind

2987
01:58:31,270 --> 01:58:28,560
that when peniston and burroughs

2988
01:58:32,310 --> 01:58:31,280
took a peek up over the hill over the

2989
01:58:35,750 --> 01:58:32,320
ridge

2990
01:58:39,910 --> 01:58:35,760
and looked at this craft was

2991
01:58:42,470 --> 01:58:39,920
if if we go with your conclusions here

2992
01:58:42,950 --> 01:58:42,480
that it was a government experiment that

2993
01:58:46,070 --> 01:58:42,960
means

2994
01:58:48,709 --> 01:58:46,080
what they were looking at was a model

2995
01:58:49,510 --> 01:58:48,719
was a mock-up it was a craft that was

2996
01:58:52,629 --> 01:58:49,520
placed

2997
01:58:55,830 --> 01:58:52,639
in the woods right is there another way

2998
01:59:01,589 --> 01:58:58,950
well i mean it depends again you know

2999
01:59:04,950 --> 01:59:01,599
the perspective of what you're seeing

3000
01:59:07,430 --> 01:59:04,960
under the circumstances that um

3001
01:59:09,189 --> 01:59:07,440
that are before you you know and as i

3002
01:59:12,550 --> 01:59:09,199
said when you've also got

3003
01:59:15,270 --> 01:59:12,560
um you know rumors of porting down

3004
01:59:16,070 --> 01:59:15,280
coming into the story as well you know i

3005
01:59:19,270 --> 01:59:16,080
think

3006
01:59:19,830 --> 01:59:19,280
it's so difficult um it's difficult for

3007
01:59:21,430 --> 01:59:19,840
me

3008
01:59:23,109 --> 01:59:21,440
to put the picture together because

3009
01:59:26,790 --> 01:59:23,119
there are so many strands

3010
01:59:30,790 --> 01:59:26,800
but you know my perspective

3011
01:59:33,910 --> 01:59:30,800
is that when you have

3012
01:59:34,390 --> 01:59:33,920
not just a ufo event but you've got

3013
01:59:37,430 --> 01:59:34,400
these

3014
01:59:40,550 --> 01:59:37,440
other angles of evacuations

3015
01:59:42,149 --> 01:59:40,560
or potential evacuations you've got

3016
01:59:45,189 --> 01:59:42,159
people coming down

3017
01:59:48,229 --> 01:59:45,199
from portland down which is a facility

3018
01:59:50,950 --> 01:59:48,239
that for years spent

3019
01:59:53,109 --> 01:59:50,960
researching mind-altering technologies

3020
01:59:56,950 --> 01:59:54,870
you know when you put those pieces

3021
01:59:58,709 --> 01:59:56,960
together you realize that there are

3022
02:00:01,910 --> 01:59:58,719
aspects to rendelsham

3023
02:00:03,430 --> 02:00:01,920
that just simply don't crop up in a lot

3024
02:00:07,750 --> 02:00:03,440
of other cases

3025
02:00:10,149 --> 02:00:07,760
you know for example if you look at

3026
02:00:11,189 --> 02:00:10,159
most ufo cases you know you don't have

3027
02:00:12,950 --> 02:00:11,199
bunches of

3028
02:00:14,629 --> 02:00:12,960
people popping up saying well that was

3029
02:00:17,109 --> 02:00:14,639
actually a secret experiment

3030
02:00:18,310 --> 02:00:17,119
but you do with rendelsham you don't

3031
02:00:22,229 --> 02:00:18,320
have a bunch of people

3032
02:00:25,270 --> 02:00:22,239
popping up in relation to ufo cases um

3033
02:00:26,229 --> 02:00:25,280
and said the port and down turned up you

3034
02:00:29,510 --> 02:00:26,239
know

3035
02:00:32,709 --> 02:00:29,520
but with this one you do so that's why

3036
02:00:35,750 --> 02:00:32,719
that's why i'm sort of careful

3037
02:00:38,790 --> 02:00:35,760
as to how i

3038
02:00:40,950 --> 02:00:38,800
sort of look at all the testimony when

3039
02:00:44,629 --> 02:00:40,960
you're dealing with

3040
02:00:47,109 --> 02:00:44,639
agencies that working with hallucinogens

3041
02:00:49,030 --> 02:00:47,119
yeah did you listen to uh did you listen

3042
02:00:52,550 --> 02:00:49,040
to any of the john burroughs

3043
02:00:55,109 --> 02:00:52,560
interviews he did on fade to block

3044
02:00:57,510 --> 02:00:55,119
no oh you should have you should have

3045
02:01:00,950 --> 02:00:57,520
maybe you can do an addendum to the book

3046
02:01:04,149 --> 02:01:00,960
because now i i just remembered

3047
02:01:07,589 --> 02:01:04,159
john burroughs said one thing

3048
02:01:10,550 --> 02:01:07,599
that was interesting that

3049
02:01:12,070 --> 02:01:10,560
at the moment that peniston had

3050
02:01:14,629 --> 02:01:12,080
approached i could be

3051
02:01:15,350 --> 02:01:14,639
a little bit off here i'm going with my

3052
02:01:19,430 --> 02:01:15,360
memory

3053
02:01:21,830 --> 02:01:19,440
it's not the best okay so let's

3054
02:01:22,629 --> 02:01:21,840
let's let's do that first but it's this

3055
02:01:25,510 --> 02:01:22,639
i think he

3056
02:01:26,390 --> 02:01:25,520
said uh because i was trying to get this

3057
02:01:30,390 --> 02:01:26,400
out of him

3058
02:01:32,470 --> 02:01:30,400
that as panistan approached the craft

3059
02:01:33,430 --> 02:01:32,480
and he didn't want him to do it you know

3060
02:01:35,430 --> 02:01:33,440
john didn't

3061
02:01:38,390 --> 02:01:35,440
but pennison was doing his own thing

3062
02:01:41,510 --> 02:01:38,400
that at that moment

3063
02:01:44,790 --> 02:01:41,520
burroughs blacked out yeah yeah

3064
02:01:49,750 --> 02:01:44,800
yeah he blacked out he came to and

3065
02:01:52,229 --> 02:01:49,760
everything was over and had concluded

3066
02:01:53,750 --> 02:01:52,239
could that have been because of

3067
02:01:55,910 --> 02:01:53,760
something else

3068
02:01:57,109 --> 02:01:55,920
uh that was was in the air very

3069
02:01:59,830 --> 02:01:57,119
interesting

3070
02:02:01,589 --> 02:01:59,840
i just remembered that aspect of it

3071
02:02:04,310 --> 02:02:01,599
because i wanted john to say

3072
02:02:05,830 --> 02:02:04,320
hey i saw peniston touch the craft i saw

3073
02:02:07,510 --> 02:02:05,840
him receive the download

3074
02:02:10,390 --> 02:02:07,520
i saw the symbols on the site you know

3075
02:02:13,109 --> 02:02:10,400
and and no that's not what happened

3076
02:02:16,950 --> 02:02:13,119
john had blanked out for i think he said

3077
02:02:19,990 --> 02:02:18,709
well again you know that's sort of like

3078
02:02:22,310 --> 02:02:20,000
a really weird

3079
02:02:23,350 --> 02:02:22,320
part of a story again that you don't get

3080
02:02:26,390 --> 02:02:23,360
in most

3081
02:02:29,589 --> 02:02:26,400
um most stories you know and um

3082
02:02:30,830 --> 02:02:29,599
and again i think randall should be such

3083
02:02:34,310 --> 02:02:30,840
a unique

3084
02:02:35,430 --> 02:02:34,320
story um not just because of the events

3085
02:02:38,229 --> 02:02:35,440
i mean like i meant

3086
02:02:40,070 --> 02:02:38,239
at the very start of it um you know

3087
02:02:42,310 --> 02:02:40,080
since the 1930s

3088
02:02:44,229 --> 02:02:42,320
the whole area within 10 miles of

3089
02:02:47,030 --> 02:02:44,239
rendelsham forest has been

3090
02:02:49,910 --> 02:02:47,040
the locations of multiple secret

3091
02:02:53,109 --> 02:02:49,920
experiments the tizzard committee

3092
02:02:55,270 --> 02:02:53,119
um the cobra miss radar programs

3093
02:02:57,830 --> 02:02:55,280
all of them less than 10 miles from the

3094
02:03:01,109 --> 02:02:57,840
forest now that doesn't prove anything

3095
02:03:03,270 --> 02:03:01,119
but what it does show is that a lot of

3096
02:03:07,350 --> 02:03:03,280
weird stuff has gone down

3097
02:03:10,790 --> 02:03:07,360
in and around the rendelsham forest area

3098
02:03:13,589 --> 02:03:10,800
so you know i think just

3099
02:03:14,310 --> 02:03:13,599
using logic you know demonstrates that

3100
02:03:17,350 --> 02:03:14,320
we should

3101
02:03:18,070 --> 02:03:17,360
at the very least be open-minded to the

3102
02:03:20,070 --> 02:03:18,080
idea

3103
02:03:21,270 --> 02:03:20,080
well if there are a bunch of experiments

3104
02:03:23,310 --> 02:03:21,280
in and around

3105
02:03:25,030 --> 02:03:23,320
the area of reynolds and forest from the

3106
02:03:27,109 --> 02:03:25,040
1930s

3107
02:03:29,030 --> 02:03:27,119
why couldn't they still be going on in

3108
02:03:31,350 --> 02:03:29,040
december 1980

3109
02:03:32,870 --> 02:03:31,360
yeah and i know that right now nick as

3110
02:03:34,470 --> 02:03:32,880
we're winding down to the end of the

3111
02:03:35,669 --> 02:03:34,480
interview but i want to get this last

3112
02:03:39,990 --> 02:03:35,679
question in

3113
02:03:40,950 --> 02:03:40,000
which is this the conclusions that you

3114
02:03:44,470 --> 02:03:40,960
have come to

3115
02:03:47,189 --> 02:03:44,480
in the book is is where you are now

3116
02:03:47,830 --> 02:03:47,199
with randall shim i get that was there a

3117
02:03:51,510 --> 02:03:47,840
period

3118
02:03:54,069 --> 02:03:51,520
in the past uh going back to 1984

3119
02:03:55,669 --> 02:03:54,079
when jenny randall's book first came out

3120
02:03:58,950 --> 02:03:55,679
what did you

3121
02:04:00,149 --> 02:03:58,960
did you have a belief that it was ufos

3122
02:04:02,470 --> 02:04:00,159
and aliens

3123
02:04:03,510 --> 02:04:02,480
that that landed that night uh over

3124
02:04:08,830 --> 02:04:03,520
those three nights

3125
02:04:09,990 --> 02:04:08,840
in 1980 81 and then your mind was

3126
02:04:13,189 --> 02:04:10,000
changed

3127
02:04:16,229 --> 02:04:13,199
oh yeah i mean um you know when i read

3128
02:04:19,109 --> 02:04:16,239
sky crash which came out in 1984

3129
02:04:20,709 --> 02:04:19,119
and jenny randles his book from out of

3130
02:04:24,069 --> 02:04:20,719
the blue which came out

3131
02:04:27,109 --> 02:04:24,079
in 91 or 92

3132
02:04:29,109 --> 02:04:27,119
and jenny did another book um ufo

3133
02:04:31,830 --> 02:04:29,119
landing i think it was called

3134
02:04:32,229 --> 02:04:31,840
and um georgie nabruny's book you know

3135
02:04:35,109 --> 02:04:32,239
they

3136
02:04:36,629 --> 02:04:35,119
all presented a lot of really intriguing

3137
02:04:39,669 --> 02:04:36,639
credible material

3138
02:04:40,149 --> 02:04:39,679
um some of it which did go down the sort

3139
02:04:43,750 --> 02:04:40,159
of

3140
02:04:46,390 --> 02:04:43,760
ufo angle but what's interesting is that

3141
02:04:49,830 --> 02:04:46,400
all of those books georgina's book

3142
02:04:50,470 --> 02:04:49,840
jenny's various books um and even for

3143
02:04:53,669 --> 02:04:50,480
example

3144
02:04:55,750 --> 02:04:53,679
nick pope in his book you know nick also

3145
02:04:58,950 --> 02:04:55,760
addresses the secret experiments

3146
02:05:00,149 --> 02:04:58,960
angling there and yes sir to sort of

3147
02:05:03,109 --> 02:05:00,159
answer your question

3148
02:05:04,950 --> 02:05:03,119
yeah i mean for years i believed that

3149
02:05:07,830 --> 02:05:04,960
aliens did come down

3150
02:05:09,270 --> 02:05:07,840
at randlesham and aliens may have come

3151
02:05:12,950 --> 02:05:09,280
down at randallsham

3152
02:05:13,589 --> 02:05:12,960
and if they did it could only be a case

3153
02:05:16,550 --> 02:05:13,599
that

3154
02:05:18,149 --> 02:05:16,560
somebody decided to target me and a

3155
02:05:22,550 --> 02:05:18,159
bunch of other people

3156
02:05:24,870 --> 02:05:22,560
with a very intricate alternative story

3157
02:05:26,390 --> 02:05:24,880
but my argument is well why why do that

3158
02:05:28,310 --> 02:05:26,400
why bring it up

3159
02:05:29,990 --> 02:05:28,320
and create another controversy where

3160
02:05:33,669 --> 02:05:30,000
they could just keep it buried

3161
02:05:38,470 --> 02:05:33,679
but yeah for years um you know i thought

3162
02:05:41,830 --> 02:05:38,480
it was like the uh the uk equivalent of

3163
02:05:45,430 --> 02:05:41,840
roswell you know um for many people

3164
02:05:47,589 --> 02:05:45,440
and um but you know the fact that

3165
02:05:48,629 --> 02:05:47,599
the more i looked into it and the more i

3166
02:05:52,470 --> 02:05:48,639
came around

3167
02:05:53,990 --> 02:05:52,480
to the idea of an experiment um

3168
02:05:55,510 --> 02:05:54,000
you know i mean like i said earlier what

3169
02:05:55,990 --> 02:05:55,520
am i gonna do i'm not gonna lie i'm

3170
02:05:59,109 --> 02:05:56,000
gonna be

3171
02:06:02,310 --> 02:05:59,119
honest and say well yeah my mind has

3172
02:06:05,270 --> 02:06:02,320
changed which it has when

3173
02:06:06,470 --> 02:06:05,280
when that happens nick uh were you

3174
02:06:10,149 --> 02:06:06,480
bummed out

3175
02:06:12,069 --> 02:06:10,159
i mean were you like oh man really

3176
02:06:13,750 --> 02:06:12,079
you know you have to emotionally be

3177
02:06:18,550 --> 02:06:13,760
affected somewhat

3178
02:06:21,189 --> 02:06:18,560
well amp it's hard to say really because

3179
02:06:22,629 --> 02:06:21,199
i'm one of these people who you know i

3180
02:06:24,229 --> 02:06:22,639
write

3181
02:06:26,149 --> 02:06:24,239
like for example if you take like jim

3182
02:06:29,030 --> 02:06:26,159
jim peniston he had

3183
02:06:29,990 --> 02:06:29,040
um he's it was his own experience an

3184
02:06:33,990 --> 02:06:30,000
extremely

3185
02:06:37,270 --> 02:06:34,000
emotional event but i'm someone

3186
02:06:39,910 --> 02:06:37,280
detached who was who writes about it

3187
02:06:41,510 --> 02:06:39,920
and when you're detached rather than

3188
02:06:44,629 --> 02:06:41,520
being the

3189
02:06:46,870 --> 02:06:44,639
the witness or the person involved if

3190
02:06:49,830 --> 02:06:46,880
you're detached and you're working

3191
02:06:50,390 --> 02:06:49,840
from the perspective of a writer i

3192
02:06:53,669 --> 02:06:50,400
actually

3193
02:06:55,910 --> 02:06:53,679
think you don't have that kind of

3194
02:06:58,629 --> 02:06:55,920
you know sort of bummed out aspect

3195
02:07:00,950 --> 02:06:58,639
because i don't at least because

3196
02:07:01,669 --> 02:07:00,960
i'm as i said i'm detached from the

3197
02:07:04,229 --> 02:07:01,679
story

3198
02:07:04,790 --> 02:07:04,239
where the witnesses are obviously you

3199
02:07:08,069 --> 02:07:04,800
know

3200
02:07:11,830 --> 02:07:08,079
not detached from the story so

3201
02:07:12,629 --> 02:07:11,840
for me it's all about getting the answer

3202
02:07:15,910 --> 02:07:12,639
and

3203
02:07:17,270 --> 02:07:15,920
if it turns out that i'm right then i'm

3204
02:07:19,550 --> 02:07:17,280
right if i'm turned out

3205
02:07:20,950 --> 02:07:19,560
i'm wrong and i was deceived and

3206
02:07:27,589 --> 02:07:20,960
manipulated

3207
02:07:29,910 --> 02:07:27,599
hopefully would still mean we would get

3208
02:07:33,270 --> 02:07:29,920
some answers at least you know

3209
02:07:37,109 --> 02:07:33,280
um or we continue to to debate

3210
02:07:39,270 --> 02:07:37,119
but um but so no i'm not really

3211
02:07:41,990 --> 02:07:39,280
i'm not bummed out that i don't think it

3212
02:07:45,830 --> 02:07:42,000
was an extraterrestrial anymore i think

3213
02:07:50,470 --> 02:07:45,840
you know the the secret experiment angle

3214
02:07:53,990 --> 02:07:50,480
is arguably just as controversial as the

3215
02:07:57,030 --> 02:07:54,000
alien angle but um but like i said

3216
02:07:57,430 --> 02:07:57,040
i mean how do we solve it you know we we

3217
02:08:01,669 --> 02:07:57,440
can

3218
02:08:03,430 --> 02:08:01,679
i mean you sort of chatting all about on

3219
02:08:04,390 --> 02:08:03,440
on facebook as i've been doing the last

3220
02:08:06,709 --> 02:08:04,400
few days

3221
02:08:08,149 --> 02:08:06,719
you know i know it's been it's sort of

3222
02:08:11,270 --> 02:08:08,159
enlightening and fun

3223
02:08:14,310 --> 02:08:11,280
and um it goes on and on and on but

3224
02:08:17,510 --> 02:08:14,320
no um headway is ever made

3225
02:08:19,109 --> 02:08:17,520
and we need to find a way in terms of

3226
02:08:21,589 --> 02:08:19,119
this case

3227
02:08:22,310 --> 02:08:21,599
wherever it goes we need to find more

3228
02:08:25,750 --> 02:08:22,320
headway

3229
02:08:26,870 --> 02:08:25,760
and more answers and um and that's the

3230
02:08:30,390 --> 02:08:26,880
one thing i never

3231
02:08:33,830 --> 02:08:30,400
really understand how we can do that

3232
02:08:35,030 --> 02:08:33,840
yeah yeah and and we we we just talked

3233
02:08:37,350 --> 02:08:35,040
for two hours

3234
02:08:38,629 --> 02:08:37,360
and we we didn't bring up project

3235
02:08:40,870 --> 02:08:38,639
bluebeam

3236
02:08:41,990 --> 02:08:40,880
and which obviously is something that

3237
02:08:43,589 --> 02:08:42,000
should have been part of this

3238
02:08:47,430 --> 02:08:43,599
conversation at some point

3239
02:08:50,550 --> 02:08:47,440
but that is another aspect of ufology

3240
02:08:52,870 --> 02:08:50,560
that people bring up all the time and

3241
02:08:54,310 --> 02:08:52,880
if we are talking about projections and

3242
02:08:56,470 --> 02:08:54,320
holograms and other things in

3243
02:08:59,430 --> 02:08:56,480
reynoldsham forest

3244
02:09:00,870 --> 02:08:59,440
you can't then to anybody else out there

3245
02:09:01,750 --> 02:09:00,880
that is going to talk about project

3246
02:09:03,830 --> 02:09:01,760
bluebeam

3247
02:09:06,069 --> 02:09:03,840
say that that doesn't exist it's it's

3248
02:09:07,750 --> 02:09:06,079
either you can't have it both ways can

3249
02:09:11,750 --> 02:09:07,760
you

3250
02:09:14,629 --> 02:09:11,760
i mean what we're talking about

3251
02:09:16,069 --> 02:09:14,639
if it was an experiment in randallston

3252
02:09:18,069 --> 02:09:16,079
forest we're talking about something

3253
02:09:20,149 --> 02:09:18,079
that was relatively small

3254
02:09:21,990 --> 02:09:20,159
you know i mean i don't really buy into

3255
02:09:22,390 --> 02:09:22,000
the blue beam stuff because it talks

3256
02:09:25,830 --> 02:09:22,400
about

3257
02:09:29,350 --> 02:09:25,840
you know like a worldwide kind of

3258
02:09:31,669 --> 02:09:29,360
ruse um you know with projected images

3259
02:09:34,470 --> 02:09:31,679
all around the planet of different

3260
02:09:36,149 --> 02:09:34,480
gods and deities and everything i mean

3261
02:09:37,510 --> 02:09:36,159
that's very difficult

3262
02:09:40,470 --> 02:09:37,520
that's going to be very different i

3263
02:09:44,550 --> 02:09:40,480
should say to um

3264
02:09:47,669 --> 02:09:44,560
you know a an extremely small experiment

3265
02:09:49,589 --> 02:09:47,679
in an english yeah but the technology

3266
02:09:51,109 --> 02:09:49,599
would basically be the same

3267
02:09:52,629 --> 02:09:51,119
is that's where i'm going yeah yeah i

3268
02:09:53,910 --> 02:09:52,639
would imagine that would have to yeah

3269
02:09:57,510 --> 02:09:53,920
that would be kind of

3270
02:10:00,870 --> 02:09:57,520
similar in many respects but um

3271
02:10:03,030 --> 02:10:00,880
you know it's it's just it's one of the

3272
02:10:04,790 --> 02:10:03,040
getting into the randalsham issue is

3273
02:10:05,669 --> 02:10:04,800
like getting into roswell it's like a

3274
02:10:09,589 --> 02:10:05,679
snake's pit

3275
02:10:11,350 --> 02:10:09,599
you know um it's where do you go with it

3276
02:10:12,709 --> 02:10:11,360
yeah you have to brace yourself you know

3277
02:10:15,270 --> 02:10:12,719
when you were a kid

3278
02:10:16,709 --> 02:10:15,280
and you knew your mom was about to crack

3279
02:10:18,950 --> 02:10:16,719
you upside your head

3280
02:10:21,350 --> 02:10:18,960
so you had to do the brace you had to do

3281
02:10:26,149 --> 02:10:21,360
the brace you had to get ready for it

3282
02:10:30,470 --> 02:10:28,310
oh man well i guess you know we'll just

3283
02:10:32,550 --> 02:10:30,480
have to sort of wait and

3284
02:10:35,270 --> 02:10:32,560
wait and see you know where things

3285
02:10:38,069 --> 02:10:35,280
develop i mean the one thing i would say

3286
02:10:40,390 --> 02:10:38,079
is that you know even if it's one of my

3287
02:10:43,109 --> 02:10:40,400
books that people don't particularly

3288
02:10:45,030 --> 02:10:43,119
enjoy and this is sure to be one of them

3289
02:10:48,149 --> 02:10:45,040
um

3290
02:10:49,270 --> 02:10:48,159
i always get feedback you know and

3291
02:10:51,109 --> 02:10:49,280
there's always

3292
02:10:52,950 --> 02:10:51,119
a lot of interesting feedback that

3293
02:10:56,390 --> 02:10:52,960
wouldn't have come out

3294
02:10:59,510 --> 02:10:56,400
had i not written the relevant book so

3295
02:11:02,470 --> 02:10:59,520
you know maybe um

3296
02:11:03,910 --> 02:11:02,480
new data will come forward maybe it'll

3297
02:11:06,550 --> 02:11:03,920
sort of push it down

3298
02:11:09,270 --> 02:11:06,560
the same avenue of the book or somebody

3299
02:11:10,790 --> 02:11:09,280
might say sorry nick you know you were

3300
02:11:13,270 --> 02:11:10,800
you were deceived and here's the

3301
02:11:15,350 --> 02:11:13,280
evidence you know

3302
02:11:16,470 --> 02:11:15,360
one of the things about uh rendelsham

3303
02:11:19,109 --> 02:11:16,480
and ufos

3304
02:11:19,910 --> 02:11:19,119
in general is the surprise factor you

3305
02:11:22,310 --> 02:11:19,920
know there's

3306
02:11:23,430 --> 02:11:22,320
there's still stuff still coming out in

3307
02:11:25,830 --> 02:11:23,440
relation to

3308
02:11:27,109 --> 02:11:25,840
rendlesham well you know nick i don't

3309
02:11:30,550 --> 02:11:27,119
think you're scared

3310
02:11:32,950 --> 02:11:30,560
uh to uh tighten up your doc martens

3311
02:11:34,149 --> 02:11:32,960
throw on that misfit shirt and jump into

3312
02:11:36,390 --> 02:11:34,159
the mosh pit

3313
02:11:38,550 --> 02:11:36,400
right now i mean that's what we're doing

3314
02:11:40,950 --> 02:11:38,560
i mean i spent four days there about

3315
02:11:41,830 --> 02:11:40,960
just ranting at people and then ranting

3316
02:11:43,430 --> 02:11:41,840
at me

3317
02:11:44,950 --> 02:11:43,440
no that's not that's all we did we

3318
02:11:48,149 --> 02:11:44,960
ranted it at each other

3319
02:11:49,510 --> 02:11:48,159
and um you know i enjoy it like a good

3320
02:11:51,589 --> 02:11:49,520
online fight it's fun

3321
02:11:53,109 --> 02:11:51,599
yeah it is fun it's fun i get you know

3322
02:11:53,830 --> 02:11:53,119
what i'm going to be straight with you

3323
02:11:57,189 --> 02:11:53,840
nick

3324
02:12:00,430 --> 02:11:57,199
i get a day at least

3325
02:12:04,229 --> 02:12:00,440
one render shim email oh wow

3326
02:12:05,430 --> 02:12:04,239
every single day so there you go thank

3327
02:12:06,069 --> 02:12:05,440
you so much nick what a great

3328
02:12:08,069 --> 02:12:06,079
conversation

3329
02:12:09,510 --> 02:12:08,079
man i i look forward to uh seeing you

3330
02:12:11,669 --> 02:12:09,520
out there again and

3331
02:12:13,109 --> 02:12:11,679
we'll break some bread and and and shoot

3332
02:12:15,430 --> 02:12:13,119
a brew thank you so much

3333
02:12:16,790 --> 02:12:15,440
all right i'll see you later jimmy nick

3334
02:12:20,069 --> 02:12:16,800
redfearn again

3335
02:12:22,709 --> 02:12:20,079
everybody the links for the new book

3336
02:12:23,109 --> 02:12:22,719
are right there at jimmychurchradio.com

3337
02:12:30,229 --> 02:12:23,119
and

3338
02:12:32,709 --> 02:12:30,239
those links up on

3339
02:12:34,629 --> 02:12:32,719
our website too as well and like i said

3340
02:12:36,229 --> 02:12:34,639
nick knows this i've admitted it to him

3341
02:12:38,629 --> 02:12:36,239
many times over the years

3342
02:12:39,589 --> 02:12:38,639
it's where i go to steal my best

3343
02:12:41,589 --> 02:12:39,599
material

3344
02:12:43,350 --> 02:12:41,599
this is fade to black i'll be right back

3345
02:12:44,550 --> 02:12:43,360
after this short break i'll open up the

3346
02:12:46,709 --> 02:12:44,560
phone lines

3347
02:12:49,810 --> 02:12:46,719
and let's see what everybody has to say

3348
02:13:00,830 --> 02:12:49,820
stay with me i'll be right

3349
02:13:08,390 --> 02:13:02,790
back

3350
02:13:15,830 --> 02:13:12,470
nick redfern and i've read the book

3351
02:13:17,669 --> 02:13:15,840
you need to check it out and we all know

3352
02:13:18,470 --> 02:13:17,679
something happened out in randall shem

3353
02:13:22,310 --> 02:13:18,480
forest

3354
02:13:25,830 --> 02:13:22,320
what it was and all of these different

3355
02:13:27,510 --> 02:13:25,840
aspects and uh have have been put out

3356
02:13:29,750 --> 02:13:27,520
there for years

3357
02:13:31,109 --> 02:13:29,760
and it's it's a very difficult thing to

3358
02:13:34,790 --> 02:13:31,119
wade through

3359
02:13:35,109 --> 02:13:34,800
um and listening uh to nick tonight this

3360
02:13:38,390 --> 02:13:35,119
is

3361
02:13:40,950 --> 02:13:38,400
important here

3362
02:13:42,830 --> 02:13:40,960
he said something as significant as it

3363
02:13:45,510 --> 02:13:42,840
gets

3364
02:13:46,149 --> 02:13:45,520
everybody that was involved with randall

3365
02:13:50,470 --> 02:13:46,159
shim

3366
02:13:54,470 --> 02:13:50,480
has their own individual take

3367
02:13:57,990 --> 02:13:54,480
everyone you need to think about that

3368
02:13:59,589 --> 02:13:58,000
and and and what do we do i'm going

3369
02:14:01,030 --> 02:13:59,599
to say something else that i've said

3370
02:14:04,229 --> 02:14:01,040
before in the show

3371
02:14:06,390 --> 02:14:04,239
but when it comes to john burroughs and

3372
02:14:09,430 --> 02:14:06,400
i hope that john is listening tonight

3373
02:14:13,189 --> 02:14:09,440
um john burroughs and his

3374
02:14:16,229 --> 02:14:13,199
uh many many shows here but we've

3375
02:14:16,709 --> 02:14:16,239
done two or three specific rental shim

3376
02:14:18,709 --> 02:14:16,719
shows

3377
02:14:20,550 --> 02:14:18,719
and i think that the last one that we

3378
02:14:24,830 --> 02:14:20,560
did together on rendell shim

3379
02:14:27,990 --> 02:14:24,840
was one of the best and listening to

3380
02:14:30,870 --> 02:14:28,000
him recount

3381
02:14:31,910 --> 02:14:30,880
through direct eyewitness testimony from

3382
02:14:35,750 --> 02:14:31,920
somebody who was

3383
02:14:37,430 --> 02:14:35,760
absolutely there is an unbelievably

3384
02:14:40,310 --> 02:14:37,440
mind-blowing thing to go through

3385
02:14:42,069 --> 02:14:40,320
not only for me but for you as as a

3386
02:14:45,750 --> 02:14:42,079
member of the audience

3387
02:14:49,510 --> 02:14:45,760
and i know that john

3388
02:14:52,830 --> 02:14:49,520
and everybody there too as well um

3389
02:14:55,990 --> 02:14:52,840
have gone through a profound

3390
02:14:58,629 --> 02:14:56,000
experience one that i can't

3391
02:15:00,149 --> 02:14:58,639
relate to i've seen things i've gone

3392
02:15:03,270 --> 02:15:00,159
through things but nothing

3393
02:15:05,270 --> 02:15:03,280
like that and we have to listen to him

3394
02:15:06,229 --> 02:15:05,280
and peniston and halt and others that

3395
02:15:09,750 --> 02:15:06,239
were there

3396
02:15:12,550 --> 02:15:09,760
because uh they are still with us

3397
02:15:13,270 --> 02:15:12,560
this is a modern event and something

3398
02:15:15,910 --> 02:15:13,280
happened in

3399
02:15:17,030 --> 02:15:15,920
in the forest in between woodbridge and

3400
02:15:20,069 --> 02:15:17,040
uh bentwaters

3401
02:15:23,109 --> 02:15:20,079
there's no question about that and

3402
02:15:25,990 --> 02:15:23,119
this this twist on on

3403
02:15:28,229 --> 02:15:26,000
randall shim is an interesting one and

3404
02:15:30,629 --> 02:15:28,239
how many times do i have to say it

3405
02:15:31,750 --> 02:15:30,639
we have to push all of our chips into

3406
02:15:33,270 --> 02:15:31,760
the middle of the table

3407
02:15:36,390 --> 02:15:33,280
we have to we have to listen to

3408
02:15:39,669 --> 02:15:36,400
everything we have to

3409
02:15:48,830 --> 02:15:39,679
we absolutely have to so i've uh opened

3410
02:15:53,589 --> 02:15:50,229
747-228-2051-747-228-2051

3411
02:15:56,870 --> 02:15:53,599
there is uh the i think that the

3412
02:15:59,109 --> 02:15:56,880
the most profound takeaway from not only

3413
02:16:03,830 --> 02:15:59,119
this show tonight with nick

3414
02:16:07,109 --> 02:16:03,840
but his book is this

3415
02:16:10,709 --> 02:16:07,119
of us have come to

3416
02:16:14,950 --> 02:16:10,719
conclusions about randallshim and it's

3417
02:16:18,390 --> 02:16:14,960
very hard to get off of

3418
02:16:19,109 --> 02:16:18,400
where we are at it's very hard it's very

3419
02:16:23,270 --> 02:16:19,119
hard

3420
02:16:27,109 --> 02:16:23,280
that includes convincing

3421
02:16:30,310 --> 02:16:27,119
me okay it's it's it's hard

3422
02:16:33,429 --> 02:16:30,320
and a lot of the things that we base

3423
02:16:36,230 --> 02:16:33,439
randallshim on and around

3424
02:16:37,349 --> 02:16:36,240
is the other information that has come

3425
02:16:42,070 --> 02:16:37,359
to us

3426
02:16:45,270 --> 02:16:42,080
uh second hand third hand fourth hand

3427
02:16:48,790 --> 02:16:45,280
that's the way that it is okay

3428
02:16:50,790 --> 02:16:48,800
we need to go back and and and look at

3429
02:16:52,469 --> 02:16:50,800
all of the evidence and all of the

3430
02:16:54,790 --> 02:16:52,479
direct stuff

3431
02:16:55,589 --> 02:16:54,800
and that's that's what is most important

3432
02:16:58,549 --> 02:16:55,599
here

3433
02:16:59,190 --> 02:16:58,559
is getting off of uh something that we

3434
02:17:01,190 --> 02:16:59,200
have

3435
02:17:02,309 --> 02:17:01,200
been trusting and i keep using the word

3436
02:17:04,469 --> 02:17:02,319
dogma

3437
02:17:05,509 --> 02:17:04,479
which is uh things that have been put

3438
02:17:09,190 --> 02:17:05,519
out there for so

3439
02:17:12,549 --> 02:17:09,200
long that now it's established

3440
02:17:14,389 --> 02:17:12,559
right that it is established and that is

3441
02:17:17,830 --> 02:17:14,399
again something that is is it's

3442
02:17:21,030 --> 02:17:17,840
difficult to do in any aspect of life

3443
02:17:22,389 --> 02:17:21,040
any aspect of it any no no matter what

3444
02:17:23,030 --> 02:17:22,399
it is and i don't care if we're talking

3445
02:17:25,669 --> 02:17:23,040
about

3446
02:17:26,830 --> 02:17:25,679
radio controlled airplanes boxing the

3447
02:17:30,629 --> 02:17:26,840
mba

3448
02:17:34,150 --> 02:17:30,639
ufology politics religion

3449
02:17:35,030 --> 02:17:34,160
history it's it's a very very difficult

3450
02:17:37,349 --> 02:17:35,040
thing because

3451
02:17:38,070 --> 02:17:37,359
once you have read it over and over

3452
02:17:40,389 --> 02:17:38,080
again

3453
02:17:42,389 --> 02:17:40,399
it becomes established as fact and

3454
02:17:45,669 --> 02:17:42,399
that's the truth dogma

3455
02:17:48,950 --> 02:17:45,679
is tough man it is tough okay

3456
02:17:49,669 --> 02:17:48,960
so with that let's uh let's go to the

3457
02:17:52,790 --> 02:17:49,679
phones

3458
02:17:55,349 --> 02:17:52,800
and uh and let's see here let's do

3459
02:17:56,790 --> 02:17:55,359
this i'm gonna do that and now i'm just

3460
02:18:00,150 --> 02:17:56,800
going to

3461
02:18:02,629 --> 02:18:00,160
go in order here we go hi you're live on

3462
02:18:06,549 --> 02:18:02,639
faded black who's calling

3463
02:18:10,549 --> 02:18:06,559
hi jimmy it's deb hi deb how are you

3464
02:18:13,190 --> 02:18:10,559
um intrigued how about you yeah

3465
02:18:13,669 --> 02:18:13,200
completely so uh what are you intrigued

3466
02:18:15,509 --> 02:18:13,679
about

3467
02:18:17,030 --> 02:18:15,519
i know that you know deb you've been

3468
02:18:18,790 --> 02:18:17,040
following uh

3469
02:18:20,309 --> 02:18:18,800
ufology for a long time you've been a

3470
02:18:23,110 --> 02:18:20,319
part of this show you've listened to

3471
02:18:25,030 --> 02:18:23,120
nearly every show every guest

3472
02:18:26,629 --> 02:18:25,040
this is a subject that has been covered

3473
02:18:29,190 --> 02:18:26,639
many many times

3474
02:18:29,910 --> 02:18:29,200
and like i said i know that you've got

3475
02:18:32,950 --> 02:18:29,920
your

3476
02:18:35,429 --> 02:18:32,960
certain ways of looking at randall shim

3477
02:18:38,150 --> 02:18:35,439
then you listen to a show like tonight

3478
02:18:41,030 --> 02:18:38,160
so how did it affect you

3479
02:18:42,709 --> 02:18:41,040
okay so first of all let me just clear

3480
02:18:44,509 --> 02:18:42,719
the error because i tweeted a lot of

3481
02:18:47,990 --> 02:18:44,519
stuff

3482
02:18:51,669 --> 02:18:48,000
a long time ago to stephen greer

3483
02:18:52,950 --> 02:18:51,679
and um seeing that it's i mean

3484
02:18:54,549 --> 02:18:52,960
don't forget you're talking to the

3485
02:18:55,910 --> 02:18:54,559
person who thinks there's a military

3486
02:18:59,110 --> 02:18:55,920
base under skinwalker

3487
02:19:01,429 --> 02:18:59,120
okay okay it's possible so it's

3488
02:19:02,790 --> 02:19:01,439
totally possible in my mind that this

3489
02:19:05,110 --> 02:19:02,800
whole thing could have been

3490
02:19:07,190 --> 02:19:05,120
a military thing like he said to test

3491
02:19:08,950 --> 02:19:07,200
those people and use them as guinea pigs

3492
02:19:10,230 --> 02:19:08,960
i get all of that i understand the

3493
02:19:12,309 --> 02:19:10,240
significance of

3494
02:19:13,429 --> 02:19:12,319
developing this war these things for

3495
02:19:15,270 --> 02:19:13,439
warfare

3496
02:19:17,589 --> 02:19:15,280
that craft could have been a military

3497
02:19:19,190 --> 02:19:17,599
craft maybe the radiation maybe he

3498
02:19:20,950 --> 02:19:19,200
really did touch it and it

3499
02:19:22,629 --> 02:19:20,960
made him so sick all those years and it

3500
02:19:24,389 --> 02:19:22,639
was a real physical experience

3501
02:19:26,230 --> 02:19:24,399
i totally get that all could have been

3502
02:19:27,910 --> 02:19:26,240
possible maybe that's what

3503
02:19:29,429 --> 02:19:27,920
that's what happened there's just two

3504
02:19:29,910 --> 02:19:29,439
pieces of this that i have a problem

3505
02:19:31,910 --> 02:19:29,920
with

3506
02:19:33,589 --> 02:19:31,920
and you asked exactly the two questions

3507
02:19:35,110 --> 02:19:33,599
i wanted you to ask jimmy

3508
02:19:36,629 --> 02:19:35,120
he said well when so when they looked

3509
02:19:38,950 --> 02:19:36,639
over that hill

3510
02:19:40,070 --> 02:19:38,960
you know holt and peniston and they saw

3511
02:19:42,070 --> 02:19:40,080
the craft

3512
02:19:43,910 --> 02:19:42,080
and then you know peniston went towards

3513
02:19:45,509 --> 02:19:43,920
it what is it that you're saying that

3514
02:19:46,629 --> 02:19:45,519
they saw did you say are you saying that

3515
02:19:48,549 --> 02:19:46,639
it was a military crap

3516
02:19:50,309 --> 02:19:48,559
and he just pivoted off it went back to

3517
02:19:51,429 --> 02:19:50,319
the hallucinogenic point and didn't

3518
02:19:53,590 --> 02:19:51,439
answer the question

3519
02:19:57,270 --> 02:19:53,600
so have a problem with that and then the

3520
02:20:00,630 --> 02:19:57,280
other thing that bothers me is

3521
02:20:03,110 --> 02:20:00,640
discounting peniston's experience

3522
02:20:04,550 --> 02:20:03,120
and saying you know well he was just

3523
02:20:06,309 --> 02:20:04,560
probably breathing in lsd

3524
02:20:07,590 --> 02:20:06,319
fumes and so he didn't physically touch

3525
02:20:10,309 --> 02:20:07,600
the craft it didn't

3526
02:20:10,790 --> 02:20:10,319
you know whatever made him sick didn't

3527
02:20:13,110 --> 02:20:10,800
really

3528
02:20:14,790 --> 02:20:13,120
matter or i mean he didn't say that and

3529
02:20:16,309 --> 02:20:14,800
i haven't read his book so not to

3530
02:20:18,950 --> 02:20:16,319
discount what nick's saying

3531
02:20:20,230 --> 02:20:18,960
but i felt like pennison's experience

3532
02:20:23,590 --> 02:20:20,240
was being

3533
02:20:25,270 --> 02:20:23,600
um sidestepped or discounted and i

3534
02:20:26,790 --> 02:20:25,280
didn't like that part of it that part of

3535
02:20:28,950 --> 02:20:26,800
it upset me a bit because

3536
02:20:31,910 --> 02:20:28,960
i have followed extensively over the

3537
02:20:33,910 --> 02:20:31,920
years um what jim penniston has said and

3538
02:20:35,510 --> 02:20:33,920
how this affected him and his testimony

3539
02:20:37,429 --> 02:20:35,520
at the citizens hearing and

3540
02:20:38,950 --> 02:20:37,439
it convinced those congressional people

3541
02:20:40,469 --> 02:20:38,960
they got involved and got his medical

3542
02:20:41,510 --> 02:20:40,479
records pooled because they had been

3543
02:20:42,870 --> 02:20:41,520
covering them up

3544
02:20:45,190 --> 02:20:42,880
so that's the piece those are the two

3545
02:20:47,510 --> 02:20:45,200
pieces i have a problem with yeah and

3546
02:20:49,590 --> 02:20:47,520
well and i think that even though i did

3547
02:20:51,030 --> 02:20:49,600
ask those questions directly of nick i

3548
02:20:54,550 --> 02:20:51,040
don't think that nick can

3549
02:20:58,150 --> 02:20:56,550
good politician he pivoted right off of

3550
02:21:00,469 --> 02:20:58,160
him well but i

3551
02:21:01,910 --> 02:21:00,479
don't think that that's yeah okay but i

3552
02:21:03,990 --> 02:21:01,920
don't think that's the point i think

3553
02:21:07,590 --> 02:21:04,000
that the point is

3554
02:21:11,349 --> 02:21:07,600
that not only can he not answer them

3555
02:21:14,710 --> 02:21:11,359
but if we pull into this aspect of

3556
02:21:17,349 --> 02:21:14,720
uh uh holographic

3557
02:21:18,950 --> 02:21:17,359
projections and what was it that

3558
02:21:20,870 --> 02:21:18,960
burroughs and penises saw

3559
02:21:22,309 --> 02:21:20,880
from the ridge as they peeked over the

3560
02:21:26,389 --> 02:21:22,319
top of the ridge

3561
02:21:29,110 --> 02:21:26,399
um these are parts of uh

3562
02:21:30,469 --> 02:21:29,120
the theory presented here by nick that

3563
02:21:34,950 --> 02:21:30,479
he knew

3564
02:21:37,510 --> 02:21:34,960
and go well wait a minute here

3565
02:21:38,150 --> 02:21:37,520
so i understand that part of it and i

3566
02:21:40,309 --> 02:21:38,160
asked that

3567
02:21:42,150 --> 02:21:40,319
question directly to nick which is you

3568
02:21:43,349 --> 02:21:42,160
know you've got challenges in front of

3569
02:21:46,630 --> 02:21:43,359
you because

3570
02:21:49,590 --> 02:21:46,640
uh everybody knows so much detail

3571
02:21:51,190 --> 02:21:49,600
about rendelsham excuse me if you're

3572
02:21:52,950 --> 02:21:51,200
going to present this

3573
02:21:55,030 --> 02:21:52,960
people are going to come at you they've

3574
02:21:57,190 --> 02:21:55,040
got a long list of stuff

3575
02:21:58,309 --> 02:21:57,200
and he said well you know i i realize

3576
02:22:00,469 --> 02:21:58,319
that and

3577
02:22:02,630 --> 02:22:00,479
i just have to be prepared for it it's

3578
02:22:04,309 --> 02:22:02,640
it's it's going to be a challenge

3579
02:22:05,670 --> 02:22:04,319
and that's yeah and that i think that's

3580
02:22:06,630 --> 02:22:05,680
the way that we have to look at it

3581
02:22:10,150 --> 02:22:06,640
nick's not

3582
02:22:12,230 --> 02:22:10,160
he's very intelligent

3583
02:22:13,510 --> 02:22:12,240
and if you're going to go and present an

3584
02:22:17,429 --> 02:22:13,520
idea of uh

3585
02:22:18,910 --> 02:22:17,439
not only uh holographic projections and

3586
02:22:20,870 --> 02:22:18,920
the government experiment and

3587
02:22:24,469 --> 02:22:20,880
hallucinogenic drugs

3588
02:22:27,270 --> 02:22:24,479
and all of this was done by design

3589
02:22:28,150 --> 02:22:27,280
you are going to have people come at you

3590
02:22:31,510 --> 02:22:28,160
and debunk

3591
02:22:33,590 --> 02:22:31,520
and and be skeptical about all of this

3592
02:22:35,510 --> 02:22:33,600
and i think he understands that deb i

3593
02:22:37,510 --> 02:22:35,520
really do oh i think he does too i can

3594
02:22:38,309 --> 02:22:37,520
come up with an answer to the craft if i

3595
02:22:40,950 --> 02:22:38,319
were him

3596
02:22:42,469 --> 02:22:40,960
and i were trying to say it was um a

3597
02:22:43,349 --> 02:22:42,479
projection i would say well it was a

3598
02:22:48,230 --> 02:22:43,359
physical

3599
02:22:50,070 --> 02:22:48,240
that had you know radiation or whatever

3600
02:22:52,790 --> 02:22:50,080
but they projected a hologram on

3601
02:22:54,550 --> 02:22:52,800
top of it and that's why jim saw it

3602
02:22:55,830 --> 02:22:54,560
looking a certain way or saw

3603
02:22:57,590 --> 02:22:55,840
symbols on it because that was the

3604
02:22:57,990 --> 02:22:57,600
holographic part i mean i could come up

3605
02:23:00,309 --> 02:22:58,000
with

3606
02:23:02,389 --> 02:23:00,319
a better explanation of what it really

3607
02:23:04,230 --> 02:23:02,399
was than what he answered and i guess

3608
02:23:04,550 --> 02:23:04,240
that's the part that frustrates me yeah

3609
02:23:07,590 --> 02:23:04,560
well

3610
02:23:09,349 --> 02:23:07,600
read the uh read the book uh the book's

3611
02:23:09,990 --> 02:23:09,359
a fascinating read i'm telling you right

3612
02:23:11,910 --> 02:23:10,000
now

3613
02:23:13,349 --> 02:23:11,920
uh read the book read the whole thing

3614
02:23:14,950 --> 02:23:13,359
yeah i don't want to give anything away

3615
02:23:15,990 --> 02:23:14,960
i can't do that i want everybody to go

3616
02:23:18,550 --> 02:23:16,000
read the book

3617
02:23:19,030 --> 02:23:18,560
it's uh it's really it's really really

3618
02:23:22,230 --> 02:23:19,040
good

3619
02:23:25,270 --> 02:23:22,240
i'm just saying that it's not

3620
02:23:28,230 --> 02:23:25,280
about the book doesn't approach

3621
02:23:30,230 --> 02:23:28,240
uh uh you know direct interviews with

3622
02:23:32,230 --> 02:23:30,240
burroughs and peniston and halt

3623
02:23:34,230 --> 02:23:32,240
doesn't take that approach takes another

3624
02:23:36,389 --> 02:23:34,240
approach with other people

3625
02:23:38,710 --> 02:23:36,399
that may or may not have been involved

3626
02:23:40,630 --> 02:23:38,720
so that that's all i'm going to say at

3627
02:23:41,910 --> 02:23:40,640
this point but yeah it's it's a really

3628
02:23:44,950 --> 02:23:41,920
fascinating read

3629
02:23:48,150 --> 02:23:44,960
and like i said it's just pushing

3630
02:23:50,309 --> 02:23:48,160
it's just pushing another idea out there

3631
02:23:51,190 --> 02:23:50,319
so we can discuss this and i meant this

3632
02:23:54,630 --> 02:23:51,200
earlier deb

3633
02:23:55,510 --> 02:23:54,640
uh when i said it's all of these

3634
02:23:58,070 --> 02:23:55,520
discussions

3635
02:23:59,349 --> 02:23:58,080
whether it's a government experiment or

3636
02:24:01,670 --> 02:23:59,359
et's

3637
02:24:04,070 --> 02:24:01,680
with randallshim or any other case

3638
02:24:04,710 --> 02:24:04,080
you're never gonna get to the bottom of

3639
02:24:11,349 --> 02:24:04,720
it

3640
02:24:14,469 --> 02:24:11,359
and they all are every case is

3641
02:24:17,670 --> 02:24:14,479
so there you go thank you so much

3642
02:24:22,790 --> 02:24:17,680
i'll see you tomorrow night

3643
02:24:26,710 --> 02:24:22,800
okay thank you hi jimmy there you go

3644
02:24:30,389 --> 02:24:26,720
thank you so much deb that's debra mento

3645
02:24:31,670 --> 02:24:30,399
calling from sacramento

3646
02:24:35,510 --> 02:24:31,680
let's go back to the phones hi you're

3647
02:24:39,510 --> 02:24:38,550
you're live oh okay oh that's my bad

3648
02:24:47,190 --> 02:24:39,520
hold on

3649
02:24:54,070 --> 02:24:50,950
oh can't do this you got to be ready

3650
02:24:55,830 --> 02:24:54,080
when i pick up the phone oh man

3651
02:24:59,990 --> 02:24:55,840
sorry about that everybody hi you're

3652
02:25:08,710 --> 02:25:03,510
you're live

3653
02:25:10,550 --> 02:25:08,720
josh in california how are you doing

3654
02:25:12,070 --> 02:25:10,560
i'm doing good josh what's on your mind

3655
02:25:14,950 --> 02:25:12,080
what'd you think about that

3656
02:25:15,270 --> 02:25:14,960
conversation with nick i thought it was

3657
02:25:20,070 --> 02:25:15,280
uh

3658
02:25:22,870 --> 02:25:20,080
surprising that more people aren't tuned

3659
02:25:25,030 --> 02:25:22,880
into this aspect of the ufology

3660
02:25:26,469 --> 02:25:25,040
and the whole ufo movement and you know

3661
02:25:26,870 --> 02:25:26,479
just all the information that's out

3662
02:25:29,670 --> 02:25:26,880
there

3663
02:25:31,190 --> 02:25:29,680
because uh yeah i just thought i was i

3664
02:25:31,510 --> 02:25:31,200
was blown away i thought it was awesome

3665
02:25:49,670 --> 02:25:31,520
i

3666
02:25:52,389 --> 02:25:49,680
a load of stuff

3667
02:25:54,309 --> 02:25:52,399
for me to go off of the things that i've

3668
02:25:57,110 --> 02:25:54,319
already come to conclusions on

3669
02:25:58,070 --> 02:25:57,120
but i'm just like everybody else right

3670
02:26:00,870 --> 02:25:58,080
it's it's

3671
02:26:02,309 --> 02:26:00,880
especially when it comes to ufos it's

3672
02:26:06,070 --> 02:26:02,319
it's a difficult thing to do

3673
02:26:08,550 --> 02:26:06,080
isn't it well yeah i it took me

3674
02:26:10,389 --> 02:26:08,560
25 years actually i've been studying for

3675
02:26:10,870 --> 02:26:10,399
the last 30 years and i've been deep

3676
02:26:13,750 --> 02:26:10,880
into

3677
02:26:14,469 --> 02:26:13,760
uh ufos i've you know met bill cooper at

3678
02:26:21,270 --> 02:26:14,479
a

3679
02:26:22,469 --> 02:26:21,280
uh

3680
02:26:24,469 --> 02:26:22,479
you know i believe that there were

3681
02:26:26,389 --> 02:26:24,479
aliens on this planet i believe that the

3682
02:26:28,309 --> 02:26:26,399
government was covering it up i believed

3683
02:26:29,270 --> 02:26:28,319
in things like reptilians i believed in

3684
02:26:30,870 --> 02:26:29,280
a lot of the stuff

3685
02:26:32,469 --> 02:26:30,880
as you know because there were so many

3686
02:26:34,070 --> 02:26:32,479
other people who believed in it

3687
02:26:36,150 --> 02:26:34,080
there were so many different pieces of

3688
02:26:37,510 --> 02:26:36,160
scattered uh what appeared to be

3689
02:26:39,830 --> 02:26:37,520
evidence everywhere

3690
02:26:41,510 --> 02:26:39,840
so yeah it wasn't until about just a few

3691
02:26:42,950 --> 02:26:41,520
years ago as i was really getting deep

3692
02:26:45,270 --> 02:26:42,960
into writing my own book that i

3693
02:26:46,150 --> 02:26:45,280
finally kind of felt like i snapped out

3694
02:26:49,349 --> 02:26:46,160
of this

3695
02:26:51,750 --> 02:26:49,359
spell that i was in or this uh hypnotic

3696
02:26:53,830 --> 02:26:51,760
hypnotic spell of some sort

3697
02:26:55,190 --> 02:26:53,840
well i you know i have seen things that

3698
02:26:59,190 --> 02:26:55,200
i can't explain

3699
02:27:02,710 --> 02:26:59,200
right i have absolutely 100 percent

3700
02:27:05,270 --> 02:27:02,720
seen things that i i absolutely

3701
02:27:06,309 --> 02:27:05,280
100 percent believe that they were not

3702
02:27:09,590 --> 02:27:06,319
from this earth

3703
02:27:12,630 --> 02:27:09,600
okay all right that's it there

3704
02:27:14,790 --> 02:27:12,640
are other things out there that

3705
02:27:17,030 --> 02:27:14,800
for me i think people have witnessed

3706
02:27:18,950 --> 02:27:17,040
things that they can't explain

3707
02:27:20,230 --> 02:27:18,960
and that's fine and that's what brings

3708
02:27:23,510 --> 02:27:20,240
them to

3709
02:27:26,429 --> 02:27:23,520
you know our community but it may

3710
02:27:28,070 --> 02:27:26,439
not necessarily be something

3711
02:27:31,270 --> 02:27:28,080
extraterrestrial something

3712
02:27:34,070 --> 02:27:31,280
from off planet and then we go to

3713
02:27:34,870 --> 02:27:34,080
something like rendelsham and nick

3714
02:27:37,349 --> 02:27:34,880
presents

3715
02:27:39,270 --> 02:27:37,359
uh a very compelling argument in this

3716
02:27:42,389 --> 02:27:39,280
book there's no question about it

3717
02:27:46,630 --> 02:27:42,399
but if you go back to the halt tape

3718
02:27:51,110 --> 02:27:46,640
the tape the audio tape when he says

3719
02:27:53,910 --> 02:27:51,120
it looks like an eye winking at us

3720
02:27:55,510 --> 02:27:53,920
well hold on a minute here that doesn't

3721
02:27:58,550 --> 02:27:55,520
sound like something conventional

3722
02:28:01,830 --> 02:27:58,560
of of this earth number one and then

3723
02:28:05,910 --> 02:28:01,840
two after he says that he says

3724
02:28:07,990 --> 02:28:05,920
it looks like it's dripping molten metal

3725
02:28:09,750 --> 02:28:08,000
right do you remember halt saying that

3726
02:28:12,790 --> 02:28:09,760
on the audio tape

3727
02:28:16,870 --> 02:28:12,800
and that it's it's moving

3728
02:28:19,990 --> 02:28:16,880
through the forest and winking at us

3729
02:28:23,750 --> 02:28:20,000
and it looks like a giant eyeball

3730
02:28:25,830 --> 02:28:23,760
that that is something that we have to

3731
02:28:27,030 --> 02:28:25,840
really take into account and try to

3732
02:28:29,750 --> 02:28:27,040
digest

3733
02:28:31,030 --> 02:28:29,760
what halt is putting into words because

3734
02:28:33,590 --> 02:28:31,040
that's what he was seeing

3735
02:28:36,630 --> 02:28:33,600
that night and when i first heard that

3736
02:28:39,830 --> 02:28:36,640
back in 1995 with my own ears

3737
02:28:41,590 --> 02:28:39,840
i i came to one conclusion that

3738
02:28:43,670 --> 02:28:41,600
he's seeing an extraordinary

3739
02:28:44,550 --> 02:28:43,680
extraterrestrial event go down in the

3740
02:28:47,510 --> 02:28:44,560
forest

3741
02:28:48,630 --> 02:28:47,520
i didn't think it was anything but that

3742
02:28:49,349 --> 02:28:48,640
i didn't think it was anything

3743
02:28:52,950 --> 02:28:49,359
traditional

3744
02:28:54,150 --> 02:28:52,960
or or terrestrial i didn't and i'm still

3745
02:28:56,150 --> 02:28:54,160
on that side of the fence

3746
02:28:57,349 --> 02:28:56,160
even though nick has written a very

3747
02:29:00,630 --> 02:28:57,359
excellent book

3748
02:29:02,070 --> 02:29:00,640
and forces me to think that it uh

3749
02:29:06,230 --> 02:29:02,080
is there's something else that we need

3750
02:29:08,309 --> 02:29:06,240
to consider and i'm okay with that josh

3751
02:29:09,429 --> 02:29:08,319
yeah you know um i think it's definitely

3752
02:29:11,190 --> 02:29:09,439
important to take that into

3753
02:29:12,230 --> 02:29:11,200
consideration and i do agree that

3754
02:29:15,590 --> 02:29:12,240
there's something else

3755
02:29:17,110 --> 02:29:15,600
out there as well um uh

3756
02:29:18,790 --> 02:29:17,120
one of the things i found were many

3757
02:29:22,469 --> 02:29:18,800
references in the rig data

3758
02:29:23,270 --> 02:29:22,479
to uh uh to what seemed like celestial

3759
02:29:26,150 --> 02:29:23,280
vehicles

3760
02:29:26,870 --> 02:29:26,160
and it was also connected with the

3761
02:29:30,309 --> 02:29:26,880
mushrooms

3762
02:29:31,190 --> 02:29:30,319
uh back then and the soma sacrifice that

3763
02:29:33,670 --> 02:29:31,200
they were using

3764
02:29:35,270 --> 02:29:33,680
and doing and some of that seems to have

3765
02:29:35,990 --> 02:29:35,280
been picked up by the intelligence

3766
02:29:38,550 --> 02:29:36,000
agencies

3767
02:29:39,990 --> 02:29:38,560
and is being used within aspects of

3768
02:29:42,469 --> 02:29:40,000
mkultra

3769
02:29:44,150 --> 02:29:42,479
and uh this ties into the nazis that

3770
02:29:45,830 --> 02:29:44,160
came over after world war ii and

3771
02:29:47,429 --> 02:29:45,840
operation paperclip

3772
02:29:49,429 --> 02:29:47,439
but they were also they didn't just

3773
02:29:51,429 --> 02:29:49,439
bring the flying saucer project

3774
02:29:52,870 --> 02:29:51,439
over they were the ones who got involved

3775
02:29:54,870 --> 02:29:52,880
in the mk ultra

3776
02:29:56,309 --> 02:29:54,880
in the drug experiments and i think that

3777
02:29:57,190 --> 02:29:56,319
there were some interesting things that

3778
02:29:59,349 --> 02:29:57,200
happened

3779
02:30:00,550 --> 02:29:59,359
where they were they had some people

3780
02:30:03,590 --> 02:30:00,560
like andrea

3781
02:30:04,070 --> 02:30:03,600
pujari who wrote it was brought in yuri

3782
02:30:06,230 --> 02:30:04,080
geller

3783
02:30:07,190 --> 02:30:06,240
to the united states for the first time

3784
02:30:09,230 --> 02:30:07,200
and he

3785
02:30:10,710 --> 02:30:09,240
basically they worked together to

3786
02:30:13,429 --> 02:30:10,720
manufacture

3787
02:30:15,670 --> 02:30:13,439
a ufo phenomena that made it look like

3788
02:30:18,070 --> 02:30:15,680
yuri came out of the ufo and that he was

3789
02:30:18,870 --> 02:30:18,080
in contact with extraterrestrials there

3790
02:30:21,910 --> 02:30:18,880
was also

3791
02:30:24,150 --> 02:30:21,920
a another fakery thing that occurred

3792
02:30:25,990 --> 02:30:24,160
in his other book the sacred mushroom

3793
02:30:27,830 --> 02:30:26,000
that he had written in about 10

3794
02:30:29,429 --> 02:30:27,840
years before he had written the book or

3795
02:30:31,110 --> 02:30:29,439
15 years before he had written the book

3796
02:30:33,110 --> 02:30:31,120
yuri

3797
02:30:35,030 --> 02:30:33,120
so andrea had written the book the

3798
02:30:37,349 --> 02:30:35,040
sacred mushroom because he was involved

3799
02:30:39,750 --> 02:30:37,359
in some of the mk ultra experiments

3800
02:30:41,190 --> 02:30:39,760
and he was also involved with yuri

3801
02:30:43,349 --> 02:30:41,200
geller and some of the uh

3802
02:30:46,469 --> 02:30:43,359
getting america to believe in this idea

3803
02:30:49,750 --> 02:30:46,479
of the psychic phenomena that yuri was

3804
02:30:51,830 --> 02:30:49,760
supposedly capable of doing so uh

3805
02:30:53,670 --> 02:30:51,840
what it seems like is they've taken the

3806
02:30:55,910 --> 02:30:53,680
psychedelic also there was this

3807
02:30:58,150 --> 02:30:55,920
a lot of people the hippies before they

3808
02:31:00,230 --> 02:30:58,160
were involved in the 60s because uh

3809
02:31:01,429 --> 02:31:00,240
i'm one of them basically but not quite

3810
02:31:03,349 --> 02:31:01,439
that old but uh

3811
02:31:05,270 --> 02:31:03,359
you know i've done a lot of psychedelics

3812
02:31:06,550 --> 02:31:05,280
in my life and one of the things i found

3813
02:31:09,750 --> 02:31:06,560
interesting was

3814
02:31:12,389 --> 02:31:09,760
uh and adam go rightly's book recently

3815
02:31:15,190 --> 02:31:12,399
and uh afrodomsky he talks about uh

3816
02:31:17,190 --> 02:31:15,200
one of the cases of bernard copely who

3817
02:31:18,870 --> 02:31:17,200
wrote a book called hallucinogenic drugs

3818
02:31:21,830 --> 02:31:18,880
and their application to extra

3819
02:31:23,990 --> 02:31:21,840
sensory perception in 1962. well

3820
02:31:26,790 --> 02:31:24,000
apparently bernard was attending the

3821
02:31:27,349 --> 02:31:26,800
uh giant rock uh meetings that were

3822
02:31:29,349 --> 02:31:27,359
happening

3823
02:31:30,550 --> 02:31:29,359
in california where people were

3824
02:31:32,870 --> 02:31:30,560
gathering and taking

3825
02:31:34,469 --> 02:31:32,880
mescaline acid psychedelics you know

3826
02:31:36,309 --> 02:31:34,479
peyote and mushrooms

3827
02:31:38,710 --> 02:31:36,319
and you know i think that the

3828
02:31:41,030 --> 02:31:38,720
intelligence agencies had noticed that

3829
02:31:42,389 --> 02:31:41,040
that that perception had allowed people

3830
02:31:45,590 --> 02:31:42,399
to be able to see

3831
02:31:48,309 --> 02:31:45,600
the uh actual ufos better and

3832
02:31:49,830 --> 02:31:48,319
the real ones and they had announced in

3833
02:31:51,990 --> 02:31:49,840
the 1950s

3834
02:31:54,150 --> 02:31:52,000
that the airport air force had announced

3835
02:31:55,750 --> 02:31:54,160
that they had discovered that

3836
02:31:57,510 --> 02:31:55,760
through radar and through some of that

3837
02:31:59,590 --> 02:31:57,520
uh investigating

3838
02:32:01,349 --> 02:31:59,600
that was going on that they sensed that

3839
02:32:04,550 --> 02:32:01,359
there were biological

3840
02:32:07,429 --> 02:32:04,560
uh animals that lived in an unseen

3841
02:32:09,190 --> 02:32:07,439
uh infrared uh area in our own

3842
02:32:11,190 --> 02:32:09,200
atmosphere and that they were harmless

3843
02:32:13,510 --> 02:32:11,200
to us so it seems like they

3844
02:32:14,469 --> 02:32:13,520
had figured out between wilhelm mike's

3845
02:32:17,670 --> 02:32:14,479
work and

3846
02:32:18,389 --> 02:32:17,680
dreams and trevor constable and they had

3847
02:32:21,429 --> 02:32:18,399
figured out

3848
02:32:23,270 --> 02:32:21,439
what the ufo was that it was a natural

3849
02:32:25,590 --> 02:32:23,280
phenomena that was existing in our

3850
02:32:27,830 --> 02:32:25,600
atmosphere and then they re-engineered

3851
02:32:30,550 --> 02:32:27,840
that into a mind control program

3852
02:32:30,950 --> 02:32:30,560
through mk ultra to make people believe

3853
02:32:34,389 --> 02:32:30,960
uh

3854
02:32:36,150 --> 02:32:34,399
that aliens were piloting the

3855
02:32:38,389 --> 02:32:36,160
flying saucers that they were flying

3856
02:32:40,870 --> 02:32:38,399
around with their secret technologies

3857
02:32:41,990 --> 02:32:40,880
and when people would see the ufos they

3858
02:32:45,030 --> 02:32:42,000
could say it was

3859
02:32:47,670 --> 02:32:45,040
uh well the nazi the

3860
02:32:49,110 --> 02:32:47,680
flying saucer technology or vice versa

3861
02:32:51,030 --> 02:32:49,120
and that would serve

3862
02:32:52,389 --> 02:32:51,040
all these purposes of keeping the

3863
02:32:55,750 --> 02:32:52,399
technology secret

3864
02:32:57,110 --> 02:32:55,760
and also creating a new uh ancient alien

3865
02:32:59,030 --> 02:32:57,120
type of agenda

3866
02:33:00,309 --> 02:32:59,040
of making people you know replacing the

3867
02:33:02,550 --> 02:33:00,319
idea of god

3868
02:33:04,630 --> 02:33:02,560
uh in the because it's dying out in

3869
02:33:06,630 --> 02:33:04,640
christianity with a new idea and belief

3870
02:33:07,030 --> 02:33:06,640
in aliens and i think that that's what's

3871
02:33:09,030 --> 02:33:07,040
that's

3872
02:33:10,950 --> 02:33:09,040
a lot about what's going on right now

3873
02:33:14,309 --> 02:33:10,960
well and i think that is a

3874
02:33:17,349 --> 02:33:14,319
very uh simple

3875
02:33:20,950 --> 02:33:17,359
idea to come up with to help

3876
02:33:22,230 --> 02:33:20,960
what was going on in the the late 40s

3877
02:33:24,870 --> 02:33:22,240
50s and 60s well

3878
02:33:26,309 --> 02:33:24,880
and through today it's a very simple

3879
02:33:29,429 --> 02:33:26,319
concept to just push

3880
02:33:29,990 --> 02:33:29,439
forward it's not complicated and and i

3881
02:33:33,110 --> 02:33:30,000
get that

3882
02:33:37,429 --> 02:33:33,120
and i understand that what that doesn't

3883
02:33:40,710 --> 02:33:37,439
explain is everything before 1900

3884
02:33:42,790 --> 02:33:40,720
everything before kitty hawk every

3885
02:33:44,710 --> 02:33:42,800
you know it doesn't explain anything

3886
02:33:48,389 --> 02:33:44,720
about what was seen in the skies

3887
02:33:49,110 --> 02:33:48,399
in the early 1800s 1700s 1600s and then

3888
02:33:51,670 --> 02:33:49,120
going back

3889
02:33:52,309 --> 02:33:51,680
thousands of years that only fixed the

3890
02:33:55,590 --> 02:33:52,319
modern

3891
02:33:58,230 --> 02:33:55,600
the narrative of today so

3892
02:33:58,710 --> 02:33:58,240
you know when i think about and you go

3893
02:34:03,270 --> 02:33:58,720
back

3894
02:34:06,389 --> 02:34:03,280
and you read uh i did uh i did a show

3895
02:34:09,750 --> 02:34:06,399
a couple of years ago where i went back

3896
02:34:12,309 --> 02:34:09,760
and i chronicled all of the

3897
02:34:13,590 --> 02:34:12,319
ancient references and it took me uh

3898
02:34:16,790 --> 02:34:13,600
about a week

3899
02:34:19,270 --> 02:34:16,800
uh uh all the ancient references

3900
02:34:20,790 --> 02:34:19,280
in history of something being seen in

3901
02:34:24,550 --> 02:34:20,800
the sky

3902
02:34:26,950 --> 02:34:24,560
okay not birds something

3903
02:34:28,070 --> 02:34:26,960
and i went back and i found things in

3904
02:34:31,670 --> 02:34:28,080
400 bc

3905
02:34:36,150 --> 02:34:31,680
500 bc 1000 bc um

3906
02:34:39,270 --> 02:34:36,160
all the way uh up to i think i i went to

3907
02:34:41,670 --> 02:34:39,280
i stopped at the year 1000 right i

3908
02:34:45,429 --> 02:34:41,680
didn't get into anything too modern

3909
02:34:50,070 --> 02:34:45,439
the list and was long

3910
02:34:51,750 --> 02:34:50,080
number one but also what was described

3911
02:34:54,550 --> 02:34:51,760
by these different historians in the

3912
02:34:57,110 --> 02:34:54,560
past was complicated

3913
02:34:59,110 --> 02:34:57,120
they were having a very hard time

3914
02:35:02,230 --> 02:34:59,120
explaining

3915
02:35:05,349 --> 02:35:02,240
what it was they were seeing in the sky

3916
02:35:07,030 --> 02:35:05,359
and that part of it we can go into

3917
02:35:09,910 --> 02:35:07,040
modern times and talk about

3918
02:35:10,870 --> 02:35:09,920
anomalies and and things that i've seen

3919
02:35:13,750 --> 02:35:10,880
in others

3920
02:35:15,429 --> 02:35:13,760
that's one thing but when you go back to

3921
02:35:18,950 --> 02:35:15,439
before the invention of

3922
02:35:20,790 --> 02:35:18,960
balloons dirtiables lighter than

3923
02:35:22,630 --> 02:35:20,800
aircraft and certainly airplanes and

3924
02:35:25,110 --> 02:35:22,640
helicopters and rockets

3925
02:35:27,670 --> 02:35:25,120
you get before that they didn't have

3926
02:35:29,990 --> 02:35:27,680
anything to relate it to

3927
02:35:31,830 --> 02:35:30,000
they didn't you know so how are they

3928
02:35:33,349 --> 02:35:31,840
going to describe what they're seeing in

3929
02:35:36,950 --> 02:35:33,359
the skies

3930
02:35:40,309 --> 02:35:36,960
that part of it for me uh is

3931
02:35:43,590 --> 02:35:40,319
is about as interesting of this aspect

3932
02:35:46,230 --> 02:35:43,600
of ufology and technology and visitation

3933
02:35:47,349 --> 02:35:46,240
of this earth than anything else that's

3934
02:35:49,429 --> 02:35:47,359
out there josh

3935
02:35:51,110 --> 02:35:49,439
and and these are the conclusions that

3936
02:35:53,990 --> 02:35:51,120
i've come to

3937
02:35:55,510 --> 02:35:54,000
well can i add something to that uh if i

3938
02:35:57,429 --> 02:35:55,520
if i could jimmy um and

3939
02:35:59,349 --> 02:35:57,439
i cover a lot of this in my book uh

3940
02:36:00,870 --> 02:35:59,359
ancient psychedelia alien gods and

3941
02:36:02,630 --> 02:36:00,880
mushroom goddesses which which i still

3942
02:36:04,550 --> 02:36:02,640
got to get a copy to you by the way and

3943
02:36:06,790 --> 02:36:04,560
before i hang out please give me a way

3944
02:36:09,990 --> 02:36:06,800
that i can get mail a copy to you

3945
02:36:12,309 --> 02:36:10,000
uh but i um i cover this and i

3946
02:36:13,270 --> 02:36:12,319
i talk about in several instances

3947
02:36:15,990 --> 02:36:13,280
throughout history

3948
02:36:17,750 --> 02:36:16,000
how the interaction of ufos and the

3949
02:36:21,030 --> 02:36:17,760
involvement with mushrooms

3950
02:36:22,710 --> 02:36:21,040
and it seems like um uh one of the

3951
02:36:23,830 --> 02:36:22,720
things i found were there were several

3952
02:36:26,870 --> 02:36:23,840
instances in the

3953
02:36:28,710 --> 02:36:26,880
early 70s where ufos were seen in

3954
02:36:30,550 --> 02:36:28,720
backyards lights were seen

3955
02:36:32,710 --> 02:36:30,560
and the next morning or the next day

3956
02:36:35,110 --> 02:36:32,720
when the people went over to the area

3957
02:36:38,469 --> 02:36:35,120
this happened at least five or six times

3958
02:36:41,510 --> 02:36:38,479
uh between 1971 and 1976

3959
02:36:43,429 --> 02:36:41,520
and they there was a burn mark a

3960
02:36:44,870 --> 02:36:43,439
circle in the ground from where it had

3961
02:36:47,349 --> 02:36:44,880
landed obviously but

3962
02:36:48,230 --> 02:36:47,359
in that circle was growing giant

3963
02:36:50,710 --> 02:36:48,240
mushrooms

3964
02:36:52,230 --> 02:36:50,720
and sometimes uh in one of these cases

3965
02:36:54,870 --> 02:36:52,240
it was in the desert where they had

3966
02:36:58,150 --> 02:36:54,880
never seen mushrooms growing before

3967
02:37:00,550 --> 02:36:58,160
and i've traced some very interesting

3968
02:37:01,349 --> 02:37:00,560
things in history that i go through in

3969
02:37:04,230 --> 02:37:01,359
the book that

3970
02:37:04,630 --> 02:37:04,240
are just fascinating because there have

3971
02:37:07,830 --> 02:37:04,640
been

3972
02:37:09,670 --> 02:37:07,840
abductions by cows and people

3973
02:37:11,110 --> 02:37:09,680
that have been recorded in different

3974
02:37:13,670 --> 02:37:11,120
things but one of the

3975
02:37:15,429 --> 02:37:13,680
most fascinating aspects of it is that

3976
02:37:19,030 --> 02:37:15,439
they are tied into

3977
02:37:22,230 --> 02:37:19,040
the fairy tales uh in the around the

3978
02:37:24,469 --> 02:37:22,240
17 and 1800s there were instances of

3979
02:37:26,950 --> 02:37:24,479
them discussing the fairies and

3980
02:37:28,710 --> 02:37:26,960
saying that the fairies had taken them

3981
02:37:31,270 --> 02:37:28,720
up and then dropped them on

3982
02:37:31,990 --> 02:37:31,280
like the side of a mountain and in some

3983
02:37:34,309 --> 02:37:32,000
of the books

3984
02:37:36,630 --> 02:37:34,319
on fairy tales where they're clearly

3985
02:37:37,110 --> 02:37:36,640
discussing mushrooms because this is one

3986
02:37:39,030 --> 02:37:37,120
of the

3987
02:37:40,950 --> 02:37:39,040
the code words that's always been there

3988
02:37:42,550 --> 02:37:40,960
for mushrooms has been the fairies

3989
02:37:45,030 --> 02:37:42,560
because that's when you know that's that

3990
02:37:47,830 --> 02:37:45,040
is literally part of the symbolism

3991
02:37:49,830 --> 02:37:47,840
and they are discussing going into the

3992
02:37:51,830 --> 02:37:49,840
other world with the fairies

3993
02:37:53,990 --> 02:37:51,840
and seeing the fairies and going into

3994
02:37:55,750 --> 02:37:54,000
their world but a lot of these instances

3995
02:37:57,270 --> 02:37:55,760
are mushrooms that they're talking about

3996
02:38:00,309 --> 02:37:57,280
but also

3997
02:38:01,190 --> 02:38:00,319
there were interesting dissolving yeah

3998
02:38:02,950 --> 02:38:01,200
actually josh

3999
02:38:05,030 --> 02:38:02,960
i gotta jump in uh because we're gonna

4000
02:38:05,670 --> 02:38:05,040
be uh uh off the network here in a

4001
02:38:08,030 --> 02:38:05,680
minute

4002
02:38:09,510 --> 02:38:08,040
just write rita rita at

4003
02:38:11,270 --> 02:38:09,520
jimmychurchradio.com

4004
02:38:13,349 --> 02:38:11,280
and uh she'll hit you back with our

4005
02:38:14,150 --> 02:38:13,359
mailing address and we'll get that taken

4006
02:38:16,389 --> 02:38:14,160
care of

4007
02:38:17,270 --> 02:38:16,399
but uh yeah absolutely fascinating

4008
02:38:19,910 --> 02:38:17,280
aspect of

4009
02:38:21,670 --> 02:38:19,920
all of this and and the fairies and the

4010
02:38:23,910 --> 02:38:21,680
little people and mushrooms

4011
02:38:25,670 --> 02:38:23,920
i'm right with you brother i'm right

4012
02:38:29,190 --> 02:38:25,680
with you all right

4013
02:38:31,110 --> 02:38:29,200
thank you so much

4014
02:38:33,510 --> 02:38:31,120
fade to black's executive producers rita

4015
02:38:34,710 --> 02:38:33,520
kamarian shows produced by lj palm rene

4016
02:38:36,550 --> 02:38:34,720
dennis and kevin

4017
02:38:37,910 --> 02:38:36,560
announces our steve powder jean vatoa

4018
02:38:40,830 --> 02:38:37,920
marty kovar

4019
02:38:42,710 --> 02:38:40,840
music doug aldridge intro spaceboy

4020
02:38:44,630 --> 02:38:42,720
spaceboymusic.com fade to black is

4021
02:38:47,270 --> 02:38:44,640
produced by kjcr for the game changer

4022
02:38:49,190 --> 02:38:47,280
network and syndication is kgra

4023
02:38:51,429 --> 02:38:49,200
the planet this broadcast zone

4024
02:38:53,270 --> 02:38:51,439
copyrighted 2020 by fade to black in the

4025
02:38:55,110 --> 02:38:53,280
game changer network inc

4026
02:38:56,710 --> 02:38:55,120
it cannot be re-broadcast download a

4027
02:38:57,429 --> 02:38:56,720
copied or used anywhere in the known

4028
02:38:59,190 --> 02:38:57,439
universe

4029
02:39:00,790 --> 02:38:59,200
without written permission from fade to

4030
02:39:02,230 --> 02:39:00,800
black of the game changer network i'm

4031
02:39:05,270 --> 02:39:02,240
your host jimmy church

4032
02:39:08,790 --> 02:39:05,280
tomorrow night fader night open lines

4033
02:39:10,389 --> 02:39:08,800
all night long very special thanks to

4034
02:39:14,070 --> 02:39:10,399
nick redfern

4035
02:39:24,820 --> 02:39:14,080
until tomorrow night everybody be safe

4036
02:39:36,830 --> 02:39:24,830
go back lee tappy

4037
02:39:36,840 --> 02:39:40,400
wow